Join us in covering S14E6, "Optimism", or the one where Jack delivers a holy water handshake, Sam and Charlie bust up a Smelly Fortress of Solitude, and Dean experiences a micro-aggression. Tune in for thoughts on romance, roosters, and Charlie redux.

Remmy: Hello, everybody! Good afternoon... or evening, or morning, or whatever it is for you guys. This is (No) Chick Flick Moments. I am your co-host, Remmy.

Bea: And I am your other co-host, Bea.

Remmy: Welcome!

Bea: So, Remmy, what's on the docket today?

Remmy: Today, we are going to be talking about season 14, episode 6: "Optimism". Supernatural, by the way, in case you didn't know.

Bea: If you've gotten this far and didn't realize that this is a Supernatural watchcast podcast.

Remmy: [laughs] And today we're already on episode 6, I can't believe it.

Bea: Mhmm.

Remmy: This is another stellar episode, written by Steve Yockey and directed by Richard Speight Jr. Good old Gabriel!

Bea: Gabriel's back!

Remmy: I'm only now realizing that he actually directs episodes with regularity.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: Yeah!

Bea: And I shouldn't be surprised that Yockey wrote this one. I mean, it's knocked out of the park. It's such a good episode.

Remmy: It is. What even is this season? I haven't had one — We haven't had one stinker so far.

Bea: Yeah, it just feels like they get stronger and stronger, and so knowing that next season is the last season... It makes me a little wistful, but I'm also like, they're definitely going to go out on a strong note.

Remmy: I shouldn't have said that, I don't want — I'm gonna jinx us. The description for this episode reads: Sam and Charlie team up to get to the bottom of a string of random disappearances. Meanwhile, Jack believes that he has found a case and convinces Dean to partner up with him on the hunt.

Bea: So good. We get Charlie back in this episode.

Remmy: Felicia Day. I always love to see Felicia.

Bea: Yes. So, we start off right away in McCook, Nebraska, where we see this woman who is heading off to work at a library. She flips the 'Come in!' sign on the library and gets to work shelving books.

Remmy: We never talk about the recaps for these episodes, but I did want to say, for anyone who is paying any attention to the recap for this episode: We had a really intense recap.

Bea: I'm so glad you brought this up.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Because, yeah, watching that recap I was like, “Holy s***! What is this song? What is this editing?” They were really hitting hard beats the whole way through.

Remmy: It was a freaking, like, 24, Jack — who's the f****** dude in 24?

Bea: I only know his name, Kiefer Sutherland.

Remmy: Oh my god, Kiefer Sutherland levels of intensity in this recap. And I was like, "What's going on??" And then we —

Bea: Heartbeat, increasing heartbeat.

Remmy: Yeah! Yeah exactly! I was like, "I'm scared, mom!" And — and we open on this Toy Story piano opening —

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: — of an idyllic town, with this young, beautiful, friendly woman going through the town.

Bea: It's all so sunny and bright.

Remmy: Uh-huh. I was like, "What's happening??"

Bea: Yeah, you're tricking me already, guys! And as we'll see as this episode unfolds, there's this real balance between your storybook expectations versus what reality deals you.

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: So this librarian, her name is Harper, and she is at work. Did you want to comment on her outfit here, for a second?

Remmy: Go ahead!

Bea: Because those ruffles, and that lace tie that she had going on...

Remmy: [laughs] Oh, you like? You likey?

Bea: It was an interesting look! I wouldn't put it with modern day, but I think that really speaks to the character. She's not living in the present day. She's going for these more retro looks.

Remmy: It was fashionably retro.

Bea: Yes, and I believe that there was meta out there talking about the whole trench coat that she had going on, too. Any time that we see a trench coat —

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: — or we see a tan-colored coat, there's gonna be thoughts.

Remmy: Uh-huh. I don't remember that meta but we’ll see if it comes up

Bea: [sighs] Oh, man. Yeah, so she's shelving books. And then this boy her age comes out. His name is Winston and he is asking her about dinner. And, because he startled her, this additional boy named Miles shows up saying that he's going to protect her. He's got his stapler out.

Remmy: Wielding a red stapler. Yeah. He's like, "I heard a scream! Harper, everything okay?"

Bea: Yeah. So we see right away that Harper has at least a couple love interests. Or at least people who are interested in getting to know her more.

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: And she is very adamant when she's talking to Winston: "It's not a date. We'll just have dinner."

Remmy: Yeah, yeah. But Winston, I don't think he gets the memo. Because he — Well, he feels he has his foot in the door, definitely. He exits the library once he gets that confirmation from Harper: "So, tonight? Ehh? Yeah? Yeah??" And Harper's trying to bring him down a little bit, but Winston leaves the library and we have this Spider-Man 3 Tobey Maguire sequence.

Bea: [laughs] Just high-on-life dancing.

Remmy: Uh-huh. He's dancing down the street. He's like, heck yeah, dreams come true.

Bea: And just when he's on that high note there, with a spring in his step, he's grabbed, and then promptly murdered off-screen.

Remmy: [laughs] Because this is Supernatural's cold open, what else could we possibly expect?

Bea: And it's already so much fun. I hate to say that after saying "Oh, and the guy died," but there's just this infectious energy that's going on already. It makes me really keen to see what's coming next.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. We're definitely starting off giddy. It's good.

Bea: Yes. And after this scene, we now cut to Jack, who is drinking sugar with some coffee.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Dean has come into the kitchen, commenting on that. But yeah, what did you think of the scene starting here?

Remmy: Yeah... Dean pokes fun at Jack about how much sugar he's putting in his coffee. I'm ride-or-die for the... “Angels like sugar…”

Bea: Yes. “Angels have a sweet tooth.”

Remmy: “Angels have a sweet tooth,” yeah. Um...

Bea: Headcanon.

Remmy: I guess, yeah. The angels-have-a-sweet-tooth headcanon. So, I like to see that. I had a little giggle at it, just as a viewer of the show who has seen this before. I don't know if it was intentional but, like I said, I always [enjoy it]. It's fun. And... Jack is bored, right? Actually, we're not even told that Jack is bored yet.

Bea: Nope, not quite yet.

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: Dean has come in asking after where Sam is, and it's Jack who fills him in. Dean has been off doing an overnight run to Mary and Bobby's, he says.

Remmy: Yep.

Bea: And so Sam has gone off to meet Charlie on this case. And Jack, he says — he suspects that they're doing something very exciting right now.

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: And we get this beautiful cut to Sam and Charlie sitting in the truck outside Memphis, Tennessee. And they are just looking absolutely bored out of their minds.

Remmy: [laughs] Stakeout. They're doing a stakeout of this bus stop, and that [scene] cut, like you said, was so comedic. They're just bored out of their minds, sitting in complete silence in this beat-up truck, and they're doing something exciting, alright.

Bea: Oh yeah. And we get a fun little bundle of cuts that are happening here, flipping between Jack and Sam and Charlie, and the things that we're hearing versus the actual... Expectations versus reality, I suppose you would put it.

Remmy: Yeah, yeah.

Bea: Because there they are, they're bored, looking at this 'Pete the Pestinator' bus bench, and then we go back to Jack and, essentially, Jack spills the beans that he's just here because Sam wanted somebody to be here when Dean got home.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: Because Sam's worried, and we get, once again — this will be the third episode in a row that someone is speaking to Dean and saying, "No one blames you for what happened with Michael."

Remmy: Yeah. One question, did we mention Cas? Just curious.

Bea: I didn't hear anything about where Cas was, for this one.

Remmy: Yeah. Just [curious], because we did that little rundown of where everyone was, at the very beginning. I didn't know if we had mentioned Cas. But yeah, Jack is here, and he's not off as he has been before, with Cas hunting. Like you said, he's spilled the beans, he's pretty much doing Sam a favor in staying home, because Sam didn't want Dean to be alone at the bunker.

Bea: Yeah, and when Dean is told once again that it's, like, "No one blames you," Dean just goes, "Cool. Well, I blame me."

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, again, we've talked about it. We've talked it to death in the past two episodes, that Dean is... I don't know, he's almost trying something new with his complex where he shoulders all responsibility for everything ever, because he's Dean and that's what he does. But he's been telling Sam the past few episodes and now he's telling Jack the same thing that he's been telling Sam, which is, "I'm not okay, and I do blame me. And I'm trying to move on, but..." For now, it's almost like, "I don't need to be told that no one blames me, because I blame me and that's enough."

Bea: Yeah, he is showing this degree of patience with being constantly told that no one blames him. Despite how many times he hears it, Dean isn't able to move past it. So he's really just accepting these outside opinions without internalizing them.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: Yeah, and it's in this scene with Jack that [Jack] starts coughing, and he plays it off, saying, "Well, maybe I'm allergic to boredom."

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: And he's just adamant. He wants to hunt. Cas says that he's been doing good so, come on, let Jack out of the cage, basically.

Remmy: Yeah, and Dean was putting him down a bit. He was like... I don't know, not trusting Jack on his word.

Bea: It was more tempering his expectations.

Remmy: Yeah. Because Cas had told Jack, "Oh you're doing a good job," but Cas has told Dean, "Yeah, he's doing a good job, but..."

Bea: Well, I don't even think that Cas would have said, "Yeah, but," about what Jack is doing. I'm sure that Cas was just, "Jack is doing a great job," but it's Dean, here, who...

Remmy: Who's inserting the 'but'.

Bea: Yes. He is doing his wisdom, judgment, on this case, and he's saying that Cas has been an insurance policy on those hunts. And, no offense, but we want to keep you safe. Sam wants to keep you safe. "And he's a smart guy, so why don't you listen to him."

Remmy: And we cut back to Sam with Charlie. [laughs]

Bea: And Sam is enamored with this fidget spinner.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Sam has a fidget spinner, and he is having a good ol' time.

Bea: Yeah, and Charlie's just like... I seriously left my world for this??

Remmy: It was funny, yeah. Charlie gives him the side-eye, and Sam immediately stops and he's like... Aw...

Bea: He's suitably chastised.

Remmy: Aww.

Bea: But now we go quickly back to Jack, and he is very adamant about proving himself to Dean, here. He lays out a tablet that is talking about Winston Mather's eulogy. Is that… eulogy?

Remmy: Winston Mather's obituary.

Bea: Obituary, you're right. There were human bite marks all over his body, and there [are] other people missing in this area. And that seems to be enough to get Dean to go, "Oh, yeah, maybe I'll check it out."

Remmy: Yeah and Jack says, “No! I found the case. We're supposed to be hunting in pairs. I'm coming with you."

Bea: And not only that, but, “I need to do something.”

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: “Here's basically all the pros about bringing me along. There's no cons. Don't think about the cons. Let's just go.”

Remmy: [laughs] And Dean, who has been only lending half an ear to Jack through this whole thing. He's making his spaghetti taco and saying, "Eh, I don't know..."

Bea: The spaghetti taco. [sighs]

Remmy: [laughs] He pulls leftovers from the fridge, and...

Bea: This is my heart, right here, because I totally get that. I was the kid that was like, "Okay, this will work."

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And it's just carb sandwiches, like... Bless.

Remmy: Spaghetti taco. Yeah.

Bea: And poor Jack in this moment. He gets to break out and say — this is really his first time of vocalizing what it is, precisely, that is frustrating him about doing nothing.

Remmy: Troubling him. Yeah.

Bea: We've seen in the first episode, the second episode, that he wants to do something, but here is when he's finally saying that he was strong enough to kill Michael and he didn't. He was distracted and stupid and now that option's off the table, and he just feels like he needs to do something to make amends for that.

Remmy: Yeah, I mean, so at the very beginning of this conversation, Jack was saying to Dean, "No one blames you," and now he's bringing it back on himself, saying...

Bea: Yeah, “Here's my self-blame.”

Remmy: "I feel your pain," almost, because I was the one who screwed up. I was the one who was too stupid or distracted or weak to kill Michael and Lucifer when I had the chance. Dean is not having that which is — yeah.

Bea: Yeah. Dean assures him that you didn't do anything, and Jack flips it right back around and says, "Neither did you."

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: "But that doesn't make it any easier, does it?"

Remmy: I think this is what convinces Dean to...

Bea: Yeah, and this is really the first time that we're seeing Jack and Dean actually have some proper bonding, isn't it? Because there was a very short period in season 13 where Dean and Jack were on a sociable level with each other, before Jack got taken over to the apocalypse world. And so, for me, this was where we're really seeing Dean start to decide he's going to take this kid under his wing.

Remmy: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It was a very short window in season 13 after Cas came back. It was just in-between Cas coming back to life and Jack disappearing into the apocalypse world that Dean — I don't know. I wouldn't even say that they were bonding. I would just say that Dean was not openly antagonistic to the kid.

Bea: I would agree. Yeah. It was more that Dean was tolerant of the kid and maybe could see, "Okay, he's not bad. He could be good," and had Jack placed on that level of [he] would be an innocent we would want to protect.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: Just something along that neutral area, but now he and Jack have this common ground of, "Hey, look — self-loathing! You're good at it too? Awesome!"

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And he can totally relate to not wanting to be stuck in the bunker just rehashing old mistakes. He concedes, "Okay, Jack, we'll get you out of here. We'll get your mind off of what could have been."

Remmy: Jack says, "Come on. Let's be hunting buddies," and Dean says, "One: Never call it that. Two: Okay, fine."

Bea: Oh, it's so...

Remmy: "Let's go."

Bea: There's such a great comedic energy between the two of them. Alex has some exceptional timing when it comes to his character, because he gets to play the straight man to Dean's more laughable moments. At the same time, Alex gets his own laughs, as we see later.

Remmy: Yeah. This was a great comedic episode.

Bea: And I did like that we just finished wrapping up with Jack and Dean, and Dean's agreeing to go out hunting, and the next scene we go into is Sam on a phone call with Dean, essentially signing off on Dean going and taking [Jack] out. That this is Dean's idea of what they can do.

Remmy: Yeah. Sam's not totally happy about it. He says, "Are you sure? Are you sure? It's Nebraska. It's really close by. We can send out a couple hunters with you," and then we don't actually hear any of Dean in this conversation but Sam accepts. He says, "Okay. Okay, just be careful. Check-in. Talk to you later."

Bea: There's some great growth that comes from this small snippet here. They could have very easily not done this touch base at all, but here the brothers aren't going behind each other's backs. Sam is the de facto leader of the hunters of the hunter hub, and so Dean is still deferring to his brother when it comes to, "This is the way we do things now, so I'm stepping in line. I don't expect special treatment."

Remmy: There's just something about season 14 where all of these Team Free Will relationships — Mary, Cas, Sam, and Dean — they're all so settled and just this understood... understanding? [laughs]

Bea: Trust. There's a trust there.

Remmy: It's just — I think we are moving away from that, like you said, going behind each other’s backs.

Bea: The drama isn't about seeing the characters pitted against each other. The drama is about seeing the characters unite against these other forces, and finding assurance that they got each other's backs.

Remmy: And it's so good. Yeah. A little different, but it's good.

Bea: I vastly enjoy it, simply because if you stick to interpersonal drama then it can get so easy to fall into the same repetitive pattern of “person A betrays person B, and person B's offended,” and then rinse-repeat it backwards the next season. We're getting into this new area of: Sam and Dean do have support. They do have people that have got their backs, and in turn they have each other's backs in a way that is just very firm and unquestioning.

Remmy: Yes. That's — those are the words that I was looking for: Firm and unquestioning, and, like I said, settled and unshakable.

Bea: Yes, it's so good. But in this scene, we can see Charlie doesn't feel quite as settled with [them], and it doesn't help when Sam is making these constant comparisons back to Charlie. "You know, I mean our Charlie."

Remmy: Oh my God.

Bea: As in, I'm still excluding you. "You're their Charlie."

Remmy: Yeah, I mean, so this — Sam, I love you, but I was cringing through every single one of your lines here, because it's just like, "Stop it, Sam." So, Sam is a very empathetic [character] and — I don't know. This is the role that he fills sometimes, in that he's the sociable one. He's the heart-to-heart guy.

Bea: Yeah, he's quite compassionate with everyone that he comes across.

Remmy: Yeah, and so he is being Sam here, but sometimes with Dean, Dean says, "You're pushing it, [Sam,]" and I think here is one of those those instances where Sam is tipping over into pushing it.

Bea: Yeah, Sam is still lagging behind the thought that, although she looks the same, this isn't “my” Charlie. It just hasn't clicked for him yet.

Remmy: Yeah. And yeah, so.

Bea: He's doing all these unfortunate social faux pas and you can see Charlie's being really patient about it, but her patience has a limit.

Remmy: Yeah. Is this the scene where Charlie asked about Dean and Dean's friends, or is that a different scene?

Bea: No, that's coming up.

Remmy: Okay.

Bea: This is the scene — Charlie has laid down the foundation for her case, that she’s done some scouting. There's been people missing. She found some goo around here, says she's pretty sure this is where they need to be. She busts out a book to basically — I like it as a gesture of, "Okay, quiet time. We're done socializing. I need to look at this now." [laughs]

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah.

Bea: She can use it as a tap-out.

Remmy: Yeah. Sam — I think that in this scene Sam is trying to connect with her a little bit, but he might be treating a bit too familiarly, I think, anyways. Charlie pulls out her book and she's like, "Let's just have quiet time for a minute."

Bea: Yeah, and then the next scene. This — this f****** setting.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: [sighs] Dick's Red Rooster Diner.

Remmy: Dick's Red Rooster Diner.

Bea: Where have you ever heard such a restaurant name?

Remmy: They found one. I don't think they pulled that one out of the props warehouse. [laughs] I think that was on location, there.

Bea: I would be shocked. I'm gonna look this up after.

Remmy: It was fun!

Bea: I — it is fun! But I'm like, my God.

Remmy: They had mugs and everything. "Dick's Red Rooster."

Bea: I'm losing it over symbolism for this, but I'm not going to get into it in this moment.

Remmy: [chanting] C***s, c***s, c***s, c***s c***s c***s —

Bea: [laughs] Ahh, screams. Okay, I'm fine.

Remmy: You got it. You got it.

Bea: Yes. Yeah. Dick's Red Rooster Diner. The victim loved having — this is his favorite breakfast spot, which is oddly specific for an obituary.

Remmy: The writing in this episode, I swear to God. It's just the lines that they deliver so perfectly. Yeah, Jack says, "That's oddly specific for an obituary," and Dean says, "Yeah, they never know what to put in those things for young guys who die." Like, aww, but it was funny.

Bea: Augh, yeah. It's so good. Dean pushes up to the front counter there, and he's speaking to a server named Wanda. She's being a little sassy to him. He tries pushing for more help and he's flashing the FBI badge. It's getting him nowhere because Wanda knows her rights.

Remmy: Yeah, and Jack is studiously taking notes, but when Wanda doesn't want to share, Dean pulls out his billfold and he's like, "Okay, if the badge isn't doing it for you, then how about a bribe?" [laughs] And freaking — freaking Jack, he's just like, "What?" He looks around.

Bea: Like, "That's an option?"

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: [sighs fondly]

Remmy: And finally Wanda starts talking.

Bea: Yeah, she gives out Harper Sales' name, and she mentions that Winston was “courting” her.

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: And poor Jack — "Ah. Courting," and basically Jack's brain goes [from] courting to dating to sex, and Wanda just leans in and is like, "Sometimes you can just have the sex."

Remmy: And again Jack is like, "Ooh, that's an option?"

Bea: And Dean's flustered, and in this moment, he nudges aside this glass rooster figure and I'm like — I just sit.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: I take my glasses off. I put my hands on my face and I'm like, "This is the setting."

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah.

Bea: I'm okay.

Remmy: You're okay?

Bea: My hands are still on my face.

Remmy: You're okay. [pause] Interview montage!

Bea: Yes, interview montage! Some rapid cuts of basically the part from Mean Girls, like, "So I heard from a friend of a friend."

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: They're going through the rundown of who Harper Sales is, and she was the prom queen in high school. Her boyfriend ran off after college. She loses men around her. She's obsessed with books, and she just has bad luck, and it's a real shame. “She seems like such a nice girl.”

Remmy: Yep. Yeah. Nice girl, many misfortunes.

Bea: And now Jack and Dean are wondering if there's something specific about her that is causing things outside of her to get hurt.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: But we don't dwell too long. After this montage, we go back to Charlie and Sam, and here is where Charlie can see that Sam is still worried about Dean having gone off on this case with Jack. Charlie assures him that Dean will be fine. "He's got other friends, doesn't he?" And we've had extensive thoughts on this, but I feel like we can talk about it again.

Remmy: Well, yeah. Yeah. So again, I was just like, "Sam, stop it. You're not doing it right." Augh. Like I said, so cringey. And again, it wasn't done bad. The dialogue was good. The writing was good. It was Sam being Sam, but I was like, "Noo." It was like watching a crash in slow motion. [laughs]

Bea: Yeah. Sam, read the room!

Remmy: So Sam says, "Yeah, he used to have a really great wingman," and Charlie says, "Hey, call that guy up," and Sam says, "Well that guy was you." I'm like, "No!" Again, that crash in slow motion. No!

Bea: Yeah, and Charlie immediately has to start firming up boundaries. Like, "No. That wasn't me."

Remmy: Which I really did love. I loved — I really like Felicia Day a lot this episode. She killed it.

Bea: Yeah. She was doing exceptional work.

Remmy: Yeah, and she sets Sam straight as best she can, like, you know, it wasn't me. And he rolls it back. He says, “Well, yeah, not you, sorry.” So he's at least — he at least understands on a superficial level that this Charlie is not their Charlie, but I think he only understands it to the point where, "Okay, this is Charlie. This is our Charlie. She just doesn't know us yet."

Bea: Yes, and Charlie, she can sense that this is what is basically happening. There's that dissonance going on in Sam's brain. And so she takes a moment to basically lay it out.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: She was a programmer. She lived with the love of her life, Cara, who was a baker from outside of Chicago. It was just like something out of a storybook, but it didn't last. Michael and Lucifer wiped out [all] technology during their fight, and the first couple days were okay, but when the food ran out, mobs and looting started happening. Death.

Remmy: Yeah. No one ever came to save them. There was no rescue. There was no big government rescue. It was just...

Bea: Social breakdown.

Remmy: Right. That's how she describes it. She said humanity responds the same way every time: They go crazy and it all breaks down.

Bea: Yeah. "People lose it when things go wrong," and she just has learned this to be a societal fact. Sam tries to assure her — because she does look teared-up, here, when she's reliving this memory —

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: "Nope. Not here," and Charlie goes, "Not yet."

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. Sam is — not to skim over Cara — Sam is surprised that Charlie had a wife or a life partner in her universe, because his Charlie did not. Again, it's just like he's not really getting it yet.

Bea: Yeah. He just assumed that the story was the same, just he and Dean weren't in it.

Remmy: Yeah, this is Charlie setting him straight. She tells her story and Cara, she's — Charlie said, we start this conversation with Sam saying, "I'm just saying I'm not surprised — from what I know of you, Charlie, based on my Charlie — I'm not surprised that you survived the apocalypse," and she said, "Well, I sure damn am."

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: "I was just a programmer, and how is it fair that I made it when so many others didn't, including Cara?"

Bea: Yeah. [sighs] Poor girl.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, lots of Charlie feels. Poor, poor Felicia.

Bea: Yeah, and that quick question that she had, "Doesn't he have other friends?" It goes back to — we talked about Dean just really struggling to have that social group there. I feel bad because Sam almost seems to give the impression that, "Well, yeah, Dean has an expanded social group now because you're here!" and Charlie's like, "We don't have that kind of relationship at all."

Remmy: Yeah. And you know, it's really hard. It's really hard for the viewer, I think. I know I had a tough time with this episode and these scenes the first time I watched it because it's Charlie.

Bea: But it's not Charlie.

Remmy: I know! [laughs] I know.

Bea: I only know this altverse Charlie, so I'm building up to the point where I actually watch the Charlie of this world. It's going to be such a — it's gonna knock me off my feet.

Remmy: It is going to knock you off your feet. I could — oh my God. Now I have my face in my hands because you're the monster who recced me a couple fics where Charlie, um. We have some broken friendships with Dean and Charlie, and I just want — I just. Oh God...

Bea: It hurts to consider, that Dean lost that part of his life. And even though the writers are trying to appease us by bringing Felicia Day back in season 13, there is still this bitterness because yeah, you brought Felicia Day back, but you didn't bring Charlie back.

Remmy: I do like that they're doing that, though. I like that we're not.

Bea: I'm glad that they acknowledged it. Yeah.

Remmy: Exactly.

Bea: They're not allowing the narrative to just play off the differences in a way that we somewhat see with Bobby. Bobby has stepped into a familiar role. Granted, he's not the one that is doling out instructions or finding the information, he's more on the outskirts, but he still seems like Bobby. Whereas Charlie, here, we're getting a moment to see ya, same face, different reactions.

Remmy: And I really did like that because that's one of my beefs with the apocalypse world characters, that we quote unquote brought back. I don't want the writers just playing off of our nostalgia and sentimentality for these characters. I appreciate the respect, like we said, the acknowledgement that these are different characters. They're not our characters.

Bea: Yeah, that there might be some — I wouldn't even say that there's any damage mitigated. There is a bit of good faith gesture here, being like, "Yeah. Okay, we f***ed up and killed Charlie. We're going to bring a Charlie back," but they're not trying to do the cup game and trick us into thinking that it's the same. As viewers, we know there's no f****** way that it's the same and you're not going to fool us otherwise, and if you try to then it's just going to be even worse.

Remmy: Cheap. Yeah, it's cheap. Or it would be, because they don't have — these characters, these new characters, do not have our history. Like you said, it's nice to have acknowledged that. End tangent.

Bea: Yes. We got it explicitly put out there.

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: So from there, we go back. Dean is now sitting across from Jack at [sighs] Dick's Red Rooster Diner, and they have pie showing up and he's just like, "Nope. Yep. Congrats, you found a case."

Remmy: [laughs] Sorry. I could see your face as you said Dick's Red Rooster.

Bea: I. [sighs]

Remmy: Are you gonna give us this meta that you're so teasing at, or?

Bea: It's not even teasing. I'm just waiting because we're going to be talking about Harper's relationship with romance novels and all these types of things and it's going to fall into that.

Remmy: Okay. Okay, I can't wait.

Bea: No, it's — don't build this up to anything besides [chanting] dicks, dicks, dicks, dicks, dicks.

Remmy: [laughs] So, we have pie.

Bea: Yes, and Jack is asking about courting, since all he knows is from romantic comedies, essentially. "You said that Rowena and Gabe doesn't count," and Dean's like, "Yeah, they don't count."

Remmy: They definitely don't count.

Bea: Jensen's delivery through this whole bit here is just so funny. Dean just going, "Yeah, I'll give you The Talk when we get home. But for now, we're looking for bad luck." Harper Sales, Bad Luck McGee over here. Where is she? What can we find out? What's going on?

Remmy: And freaking — you could just see Jack wanting to reach into his pocket for that notebook again. He says, "The Talk?"

Bea: Yeah, like just, "What’s that? I can hear the capital letters on that. What does that mean?" [laughs]

Remmy: Uh-huh, and Dean says, "No, no. Harper. Let's go."

Bea: Yeah, and so Jack is speculating, “Well, maybe she's not human,” and Dean's like, well, there's basically only one way to find out, and, "Have you ever read a romance novel?" becomes the question. [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] Because we were told that Harper — by the townspeople that we interviewed before, we were told that Harper lives in her book, essentially. So Dean heard that and is now going to play off of it.

Bea: Yes. And so at the library, Dean comes in and he's being very official, pretending to be FBI and asking Harper about Winston. She is trying to say, "I've already spoken to the police," but nope, [Dean says], "I need you to talk to me right now." Jack steps in to defend her, essentially saying, "Well, you can't arrest her, so back off."

Remmy: And, “You can't make her talk.” Yeah, so we have when Dean says, "Have you ever heard of romance novel?" we cut to this, where we have bad cop Dean and white knight Jack. So we're putting on a performance here.

Bea: Yes, but Jack takes his role a little too seriously for Dean's taste, because when Dean goes, "Back off, kid," Jack goes, "No, you back off, old man," and Dean just is physically wounded.

Remmy: [laughs] Shot right in the gut with that one.

Bea: Yeah, just, "You took it too far. Too far."

Remmy: Talk about Jensen's...

Bea: His physical acting.

Remmy: [laughs] His face journey here, in this moment. Talk about his comedic chops, you know? I mean, I swear...

Bea: Yeah, you see that verbal punch landing. It's so funny.

Remmy: It's hilarious. Old man Dean. He did not appreciate that.

Bea: Yeah. Dean goes off to lick his wounds, essentially, and Harper is just so impressed. She calls Jack's chivalrous and she just starts swooning for him right off the bat.

Remmy: Uh-huh.

Bea: His cover story is that Jack is looking for information about the area and oh, Harper knows just the book. Follow her. She'll go and get it from her apartment.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Wink-wink, nudge-nudge. Yeah, except.

Bea: She very earnestly isn't thinking about it to any depth. She's just straight-up as like, "Yeah! You want to know about this area?" because we heard during the interview montage that she has never really left the town. She is very dedicated to the area where she's from.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And yeah, so she says, "I have the perfect book for you," and we cut to Dean sitting in his car, licking his wounds. Looking vainly — I live for vain Dean and vain Cas. I only say — I only pulled them two up as examples because, Cas especially, Cas is so vain and I love it so much. We have these moments from him where he's just — oh, I can't even. I can't.

Bea: You're gonna have to put down footnotes here, because I want to see this. I don't know if I can think of anything off the top of my head.

Remmy: It's more in seasons 11 through 13 — through now, basically. That I can call [vanity].

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: And I know that you haven't seen half of that. So, but, I love vain Dean. [laughs]

Bea: He just is looking in the rearview mirror, trying to find assurance that no, I'm not old, and he's like, "Old man, my ass." He is doing his best to dispel the sudden fear that Jack sent as a chill through his body.

Remmy: Ohh, poor boy.

Bea: [laughs] Poor 40-year old boy.

Remmy: My son, okay?

Bea: I know. My son who is older than me.

Remmy: Yes. We're outside of the library, and a wild Marty appears.

Bea: A wild Miles.

Remmy: Miles!

Bea: Yeah. Harper and Jack are leaving to go to her apartment, but Miles shows up in protest, being like, "You just met this guy! What are you doing?"

Remmy: Yeah, and we're meant to read jealousy in this moment, but even here we have those little comedic moments where Jack — Harper is like. [laughs] Harper knows what's up. She's like, "Miles, don't ruin this for me."

Bea: Yeah. "Back off. Get your own life."

Remmy: Yeah. She says, "Miles, it's fine. This is Jack. We're just going to go get a book," and Jack puts out his hand. He says, "Hello," and [laughs] Miles just looks at him and he shakes his head like, "No. Bye."

Bea: Jack is such a sweetie. I adore him. Dean climbs out of the Impala to tail them, but Miles — who has now gone to go dump off some trash — he hears a rattling noise and then he screams. We don't see exactly what happened, but Dean turns off of his tail to go check on that, and oh my God, he finds Miles dead!

Remmy: In a pool of blood.

Bea: And frothy blood, so you knew it was from the f****** throat.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Oh my gosh. I didn't even think about that. RIP Miles.

Bea: Yeah. Gone too soon.

Remmy: And we're back to Sam and Charlie.

Bea: Yeah, we end that dramatic beat. We have Sam and Charlie, and Charlie is reading all of the books. Now is when she's saying she hates hunting. She doesn't want to be a hunter. There's just a lot of tears and death when it comes to this lifestyle.

Remmy: And she's had enough of that.

Bea: Yeah. And Sam just keeps talking about our Charlie. He keeps doing that.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. He says, "Our Charlie said something similar about hunting, but she..."

Bea: “She came around,” basically. She came to her senses.

Remmy: Yeah. Oh my God. Oh my God, Sam, I love you, but where's your chill here, please God, Sam.

Bea: When Charlie is saying that this is her final case — after this, she is leaving to be a hermit with wi-fi on a mountain — you can just see that Sam is quite... It's almost like he's scared at the prospect of losing her again like that. “You can't leave people.” He believes that people need people. He gets into it later, but the thought that Charlie, [that] this is the last time that he's going to see her and communicate with her, he's not ready to let go, and he clearly hasn't let go of the quote-unquote our Charlie feelings that he has.

Remmy: Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't want to get too much into it because I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent, but let's look at Charlie's death in our universe. We haven't actually had a lot of the Sam and Charlie relationship through the seasons. I mean, Sam's always there but the real kinship, the real BFF bond, was definitely between Charlie and Dean. So I kind of liked this episode a lot. Even though it's not our Charlie, I liked to see Sam having some alone time with Charlie.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: But let's look at how our in-universe Charlie died. Sam blames himself for her death, 100%. He is the one who brought her in on the case, the Book of the Damned, that led to her death. And when we do have Charlie's hunter funeral, at the pyre Dean himself put Charlie's death entirely on Sam's shoulders. He says — I mean. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. My face is heating up with my...

Bea: [laughs] With your pent-up anger at her death?

Remmy: It's not even that, it's just — I'm thinking about Sam feels, right here, where Sam tries to give Charlie this eulogy as they're at her funeral, and as he tries to say, "I'm sorry," Dean stops him and he says, "You should be sorry because this is all on you." We just see Sam shrink in on himself and we never really addressed that, and Charlie's loss was just ripped — she was just ripped away from them and they cared so much for her. I mean, maybe this is why Sam is holding so tight onto this alt Charlie. I can totally see how it he would absolutely terrified to lose her again.

Bea: Yeah. This is a weight that he hasn't been able to let go of. This has been a guilt that has been weighing on him, and now to see a Charlie, here in the flesh, it's like a moment where he can make amends. He can try and assure himself that she's okay and that by proxy they're okay.

Remmy: I mean, I didn't even think about the Sam feels. I don't like it. I'm sad now.

Bea: [laughs] You're like, "Ow."

Remmy: Ow. Yeah, because I mean honestly, really, through this whole episode, all I see is Sam being unnecessarily pushy, but you're bringing it to me that Sam is holding on too tight because he is afraid to let go.

Bea: Yeah, Sam here is just — his brain... His heart is lagging behind his head.

Remmy: Ohh.

Bea: He is just so emotive about being — you know, he's on a case with Charlie again! And he has to keep reminding himself this isn't the Charlie [I knew], she doesn't know me, and the more and more that he's hearing from her that this is just a job to her, she doesn't have it as a life and she wants to get out, Sam is trying to say, "I've tried doing the same stuff, Charlie, and it just doesn't work," and she's like, "You are not me."

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: And just that constant repetition, Sam is just having such a hard go of it.

Remmy: Well, this is where Charlie really lays down the law. She says — when Sam says, "You can try. I've tried. Hell, the other you tried and they couldn't do it, and we couldn't do it. You can't just let go that easily," this is when Charlie lays down the law and she says, "You're not me. I'm not her. This is not your life. This is not her life. This is not your choice. This is my life. And this is what I want," which I liked.

Bea: Yeah. “You don't have as much say as you wish that you did.”

Remmy: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I loved it.

Bea: Yes. It's so — you feel for Sam, but at the same time you're rooting for Charlie.

Remmy: Absolutely that, yes.

Bea: Yeah. Okay, and scene.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: We cut over to Harper's apartment, and the first thing I noticed A) it's very retro-themed and B) it is love-obsessed.

Remmy: Oh, yeah? I saw the Amore wallmark.

Bea: Yeah, she had the Amore. She had the hearts around it. There was the mod wallpaper and the furniture. So we're getting strong vibes of A) she's into the whole romance — she is in love with and thought of being in love.

Remmy: She's a romantic. Yeah.

Bea: And the other thing is that we're getting further cues that she is more traditional, or she's more old-fashioned in her perspective of this. So [with] those two things combined, she has old-fashioned romance feels.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. And walls full of books.

Bea: Yes. Lots and lots of books, and it's only when they get to the apartment that she goes, "Oh, this was weird, wasn't it?" Like we just met [laughs]. I just met you/And this is crazy.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, and she says, "I'm sorry if this is weird. I am not trying to make a move on you," and it just goes completely over [Jack's head]. Or, like you said, when Harper suggested it, she didn't have an ulterior motive here. She just knew the perfect book on the town's history that she wanted to show Jack, but then as she got to her apartment, she was like, "Oh no, this is weird," and she tries to tell Jack, "I'm not trying to make a move on you," and he's like, "What?"

Bea: Yeah, "I don't know what you mean."

Remmy: Yeah. So he also — I think they complement each other really well. I like them because — I don't know. I don't know. While Harper is almost naive in her idyllic, storybook blinders, Jack is also kind of naive in his storybook blinders. You know, he's very black and white and he frames the world in very simple terms. We even were told this earlier, when they were talking about romance — Jack and Dean were talking about romance — that, "The only thing I know of romance," says Jack, "is what I've seen on TV."

Bea: Yeah, that what Harper has learned from books, Jack has learned from movies. And so they are both experiencing the world through the lens of other people's perspectives and just absorbing those as their own. There's not really any first-hand experience that they're working with, especially for Jack.

Remmy: They're just both really cute in this scene.

Bea: Yeah. I do really like the energy and I love how it evolves later on.

Remmy: Harper's really flustered and she goes to tidy up a little bit, or to find the book. Jack, while Harper is out of the room, he start setting up some tests.

Bea: Yeah, he's going through a hunter checklist. He's putting a silver coin on the ground. He is getting a holy water handshake ready. Dean tries calling him. He's like, “No. I'm on the case. I can't answer it right now.” And yeah, Harper returns, gives him the book. She picks up the silver coin fine. She comments on Jack's wet hand and Jack coughs out a, "Christo."

Remmy: [laughs] And Harper says, "Are you okay?" And he says, "I'm just really nervous."

Bea: [fondly] Yeah.

Remmy: And she responds to that. It pleases her. We can see that it pleases her that, you know, Jack saying, "I'm just really flustered and nervous in this moment," she kind of bolsters herself out of her own fluster from that, because Jack here is following the script of, you know...

Bea: This dashing hero that has a secret vulnerable side.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. So she's reassured by this and she. [laughs] And now she has to take on her role, which is to reassure the hero of the story. I don't know.

Bea: Yeah. She starts getting to know him, but there's a quick scene of Charlie and Sam talking about the musca, and it's just basically a gross thing that they've never ever seen in real life.

Remmy: Half fly, half man.

Bea: Yeah, grossy. And Sam says, "Oh, yeah, I've read all the books," and Charlie just does this quick, "Nerd." She turns her lip up at him and everything.

Remmy: A little Charlie moment. And we get the creepy goth beekeeper.

Bea: Yeah. Yeah. The apiary outfit. This weirdo sits beside two women on the bus — or not on the bus, on the bus bench — and we're told that the musca, there is a bad egg, and the male fails to find a mate and just goes and makes a sad nest of bodies. I'm like...

Remmy: Aww.

Bea: Not 'aww' — Eugh!

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: I don't have sympathy. I'm sorry.

Remmy: Fair.

Bea: Sorry, not sorry.

Remmy: Fair. So well, I think Sam says, “Yeah, I know of the musca. No one's ever seen one, and if they do exist then they're pretty benign. They have their community and they keep to themselves.”

Bea: Yeah, “There's a reason why we don't see them,” except for the one loner who makes such a sad that he has to go and kill a bunch.

Remmy: To find companionship.

Bea: Not even companionship! It's a sad nest.

Remmy: He's building a nest. He's building a sad nest because he doesn't have his own mate or his own family.

Bea: A fortress of solitude made of corpses is not a fortress of solitude.

Remmy: That's the point!

Bea: It's just a stinky room.

Remmy: It's a stinky room. Yes. Yeah, so. [laughs]

Bea: I don't know. I seem to have hard levels where I'm just like, "I'm not going to read deeper. It's just not that deep. It's just gross."

Remmy: [laughs] But we're told at the end of the episode to read deeper.

Bea: We can read deeper later, but for now, I'm just saying grossy.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Grossy. Back to Jack and Harper at Harper's apartment. Harper is bringing him in, soothing the spooked horse of her —

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: I don't know. The object of her infatuation.

Bea: Yeah, the romantic protagonist.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And they're getting a bit of backstory out here too. Jack is saying he's from an even smaller town than she's from. He's from Lebanon, and she's like, "I've always lived here. I'm the last of my family line that lives in McCook." And Jack actually is doing his cough again. He doesn't feel that great. [He] looks over and sees this photograph of her and, we find out, with her boyfriend — her former boyfriend, Vance.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. We did hear about this boyfriend earlier from the townsfolk, that she had a long-term high school boyfriend who left after college. He left the town. He wanted — and Harper tells us now — he wanted to strike off from McCook and go experience the world. He wanted Harper to come with him, but she said no. "Everything that we need is here."

Bea: Yeah, she was happy with her world of books, and since then she's been perpetually single. Him leaving was the beginning of her bad luck, according to her.

Remmy: Yep.

Bea: But both Jack and Harper are like, "We just try and stay positive!" They just want to be optimists about their lives. And Jack says, "Trying to be positive can be so hard," and there's this little romantic moment that you can feel building and it's broken by Dean texting in all caps, CALL ME NOW.

Remmy: Well, I mean. So, this little note on optimism. Harper is telling her story and Jack is connecting with her in a real way. So yeah, we do actually feel something real, past this performance of Jack the “white knight” of earlier, happening here.

Bea: Yeah, and you can see she's actually forming a connection too, because there's been two guys that we've seen on-screen this episode that have been trying to have romantic advances with her, and she has just politely turned them both down. Now all of a sudden, [vapid voice] "Oh my gosh, Jack you're so different!"

Remmy: [laughs] Yes.

Bea: We get another great comedic beat here, of Harper going, "Do you believe in love at first sight?" and Jack going, "Do you mind if I use your bathroom?"

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah.

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: Yes.

Bea: Oh, the poor kid. Again, talk about reading social cues. He is struggling.

Remmy: Yeah, because he got a call. No. No, he got a text from Dean that said, Call me now.

Bea: Yes, and so he goes to the bathroom to answer it.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

(pt. 2)