(pt. 1)

Bea: And yeah, [he] tells Jack to open her up a little bit, and they just peel on down the highway.

Remmy: Yeah. And we have Sam and Cas back in the bunker. Talking about Dean feels, let's [laughs].

Bea: Mhmm! Cas is saying that he'll call if Sergei knows anything and Sam is saying, "Are you sure you want to handle this alone?" And oh man, that beat right there kind of hit me. Just the thought of, you know, Cas always tries to take care of things by himself, and here Sam is having the opportunity to double check with him, like, is that — “Are you sure that's what you want to do?” But Cas is saying that he thinks Dean's right, they need to do something and that Dean —

Remmy: Yeah, well, I was just going to say — let me cut in right here, because this is the moment that I was talking about with Sam and Dean and the understood farewell tour. And for Sam here to to say to Cas, "Are you sure you want to go?" It's almost like Sam is inviting Cas to just sit down and accept what's coming, because that's what Sam saw from Dean in that moment on the stairs when Dean was taking Jack away.

Bea: Oh man. [groans] This is chest pain.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And Cas is just not someone who works that way. He wants to be the shield for those he loves and he's not willing to put that shield down.

Remmy: No, and — I don't know. I read — I personally read this scene as Sam wanting to sit down and kind of tell Cas it's okay, you can stop.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: But Cas says no, it's not. It's not time to stop yet. There's still something we can do.

Bea: Yeah, there are still stones that are unturned.

Remmy: Yeah, and it really hit me harder than it probably should have. [laughs]

Bea: [groans]

Remmy: Also, in this scene. Again — loving, loving, loving the Sam and Cas bonding. We don't get real conversations between them often and I am thrilled when it happens. But they also have a conversation about Dean and how Dean in particular seems to be taking this really hard.

Bea: Oh f***. Yeah, and that Sam lets out at this moment that Dean was kind of rough and rude to Jack at the beginning, and this is something that he hasn't forgiven himself for doing.

Remmy: Yeah, and Dean hasn't forgotten the way that he treated Jack in the beginning and... I don't know. I don't know if Sam reads this as Dean trying to — no, I shouldn't say that. I was going to say, I don't know if this Sam thinking that Dean is trying to make amends. I just think it's Sam trying to — yeah.

Bea: There's kind of this new split that's happening within the group, that instead of everyone being all on board with trying to find a way to save Jack, now Dean has gone off with Jack to do this kind of happy trip around. Now Sam is kind of on that boat of like, do I sit where Cas still is, where we do everything within our power, or do I try and find comfort with the time that we still have? Because that, I'm — if we want to talk about this season at large, it is this really difficult relationship that the Winchesters have with accepting circumstances the way they are. They've never been one to do that and yet now they're starting to get these moments where they are debating whether they should.

Remmy: Yeah, and Sam, just trying to put words to what Dean is feeling right here, it just — I don't know, it hit me because for them to both be saying it's hitting hard for Dean, especially, and why, because I remember season 13 and it was hard to watch.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: The way that Dean was treating Jack. They're all in different ways, right here, right now, trying to do what's best by Jack.

Bea: Yes, and I mean, Cas, bless him. He is someone that goes all-out trying to protect the ones that he loves. He — I'm thinking back to the second episode of this season, where he and Jack were talking about what they're going to do to rescue Dean. Jack was more on the “Dean” sort of mentality of, “We have to do whatever is necessary to stop Michael,” and whatever sacrifices are necessary, we got to do them. Whereas Cas is the, “No, there is some solution out there where we keep the people we love alive,” and that's what we're going to do. He's just doing it again.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah.

Bea: And Cas' face when he says, "It feels like losing a son." Cas almost scoffs as he's saying it, like he is surprising himself to think of Jack in this way. That he's just been so close he hasn't seen the forest for the trees, that this is the feeling that they all have.

Remmy: I know, it was heartbreaking! Exactly. It was almost like this moment of realization within himself as he was saying it, "It feels like losing a son. It feels like losing a child," and just to think about Cas and, you know, “Angel of the Lord” Cas, who would never, ever have thought that he could have had or formed these relationships that he has now. It would be surprising to think, "I feel these things. I feel this kinship, and I feel this love for an individual that I just would have never expected to come into my life."

Bea: Yes, and, "I have empathy with humans in a similar situation facing this one person —" facing Jack. That the thought that he can sit in the same boat as this entire other species and be able to commiserate with a situation they're in, it's like, s***. I don't know. I love it.

Remmy: I know. I know, and Sam agrees with Cas. He's — it hits Sam really hard right here. He says... Yeah.

Bea: Yeah. We're all the dads now, Dog.

Remmy: [laughs] Oh, well...

Bea: RIP.

Remmy: One is with his son out in the sunshine, on the side of the road.

Bea: Trying to give his son a good day. Ahh! Okay, on a less serious note, I was like, Dean's little bowleggies.

Remmy: [laughs] This whole scene —

Bea: He's up on the hood of the Impala, eating that burger, and I was just, "Oh, his leggies are so not straight."

Remmy: [laughs] I saw this scene and I was like, oh my God, I want a burger so f****** bad. It looked like a good burger.

Bea: Mhmm. I wanted to be warm. Just the summery feeling. [laughs]

Remmy: Yeah, they are camped out, they're pulled off to the side of the road. They're eating their lunch. They're sitting in the sun on the hood of the Impala, and Dean says, "So what now?"

Bea: Yeah. Dean's kind of joshing him for his ability to drive, now that Jack has the skill under his belt, and he is offering up these suggestions for what they could do next. Y'know, Jack, we could go to this bar that Dean knows, [where] he's never struck out. So basically — again, season 3 feels for Dean of like, what was his checklist? It was, “Go have fun with people. Go have fun in bed.”

Remmy: And season 5, with Cas. You know, the den of iniquity.

Bea: Oh yeah. Oh my gosh, picturing Jack in a similar situation —

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Except we kind of saw him in that last week where it was just, "I need to know everything about sex: Go." He's much more on-board. [laughs] But still, that's not what he's thinking. He has a different idea, and my heart wrenches.

Remmy: Oh my God, but yeah.

Bea: Because yeah, they go to a fishing creek.

Remmy: They do. They do. We have a very brief scene in between these two, though, with Nick confronting the cop that he got information on.

Bea: Yeah, Nick basically — knock-knock [baby voice] "Hewwo, Mister Police Officer."

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: The dude's like, okay, “Not buying what you're selling.” [He] tries to close the door as soon as he hears about the Pike Creek situation, but Nick bullies his way in and forces Frank Kellogg up against a wall. So we have more Bad Scene McGee happening here.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Let's go back to the sunshine. [laughs]

Bea: Back to the creek! Sun on our face. A babbling brook. We have fishing rods out and it's just a calm, serene moment in this forest, and my heart clenches and cries.

Remmy: Dean looks so relaxed, and Jack is just enjoying the sunshine. Dean says, "Bait and beer. You're a cheap date."

Bea: Yeah. Oh. Like Dean's just sitting there thinking like, “Oh, man. It doesn't take much to make you happy.” Like, if this is the pinnacle of what you're thinking for the end of your life... I don't know if this is just hitting him. I don't think on a conscious level, but subconsciously that, once again, Jack is a kid. His needs, his scope of the world that he's reaching for is really still in this closed, familial place.

Remmy: Well, I think Dean's little opening gambit on this conversation here, in the scene, that "Beer and bait, you're a cheap date,” line, it was a prod. It was a, "Are you sure?"

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: And Jack then tells him why this is what he wants to do in this moment. This is the — he explains that these are the moments that he wants, in what little time he has left.

Bea: Yeah, he's not going to miss Tahiti or these big sparkling moments that you think your life is supposed to have. He's going to miss the time with Dean and the rest of them, that those are the moments that are going to be gone, and that he's not going to get back.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: And Dean is briefly overwhelmed just hearing that. You can see it flicker across his face.

Remmy: Oh my gosh. I'm so — so Jack says, you know, "You once told me that you and your father did this exactly, and it was one of your happiest memories of him." So we're bringing in John a little bit. And Dean said, "Well, I don't know if I said it was one of my happiest memories, but..."

Bea: Yeah. "I didn't say that," but Jack says, "No, it was how you said it. I could tell." I'm just — again, I'm pulling my heart out of my chest like, "Please stop what you're feeling. I'm gonna put you aside until you calm down."

Remmy: Oh my God. Well, Dean — that little face journey there when Jack was saying, you know, the way that you described your greatest memories, or your best memories of your family, it made me want [to do] something similar, and I knew that these were the moments that matter. And Dean, like you said, he — those feelings just crossing his expression and he is being overwhelmed in a moment, but you see him shut it down. It's like, "Abort! Abort! I can't!"

Bea: Yeah, yeah. "Conceal, don't feel." We gotta go back to situation normal. And I think it almost takes him aback too, that he was being so transparent, maybe, about this memory that he shared with Jack. Because if this was something that they just spoke about, I can see Dean just doing it casually, like, "Oh, you know, I always went fishing with my dad," and has a particular day when he was thinking about. Jack is intuiting things on a deeper level, and Dean is just feeling a little caught out because he — again, it's only been recently that he has taken Jack under his wing and brought him into the circle of people that he would move the heavens to protect. So was this just a recent thing that they talked about? Was this something that he talked about a while ago in a more casual manner? There's so much speculation I could bring that just warms my heart and also makes it cry.

Remmy: Ahh. Okay, last Dean feel. Just the fact that we're going fishing. When thinking about, you know, Dean's dream from season 4, that beautiful dock — fishing dock — and he was just fishing. Dean, he finds — he doesn't have many moments for peace, but the ones that he has had, those are the ones that... It's moments like these that were very formative. Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay.

Bea: Yeah. No, I'm glad that you brought that up because that, again, is just one of those things that you think back of when it is 'vintage Supernatural', that moment on the docks.

Remmy: It hit me right in the nostalgia. But yeah. Hit Dean, too. [laughs]

Bea: Yeah, conveniently placed on the solar plexus. Woof. And... Oh my gosh. Yeah. Dean like, "Who'd have thought that hanging out with me would make you sentimental." [He] grabs another beer and Jack's just, "I had a good life, Dean," and — okay, that line. That line makes me think of when my brother was like 7 or 10 years old, and my family had been out camping, and it was during tornado season. This one night, there was a severe tornado warning really close by and so we had to shelter — protect yourself. It's a very spooky night, and my little brother is just sitting there, and he's gathered up his small collection of toys and he's just like, [sniffles] "I've had a good life."

Remmy: Oh my God!

Bea: Jack you are — that's the same f****** thought that I'm having there.

Remmy: Bea, do you want me to cry?

Bea: It's a funny memory for my family! So I did the same thing. I was just like, oh, my little brother. You're so young. You have no idea what life is like out there, and to be like, “No, I've already hit an A+ standard for it.” I'm like, oh my God...

Remmy: I mean, this is Jack's M.O. He is just so unflappably earnest and optimistic and just wholly and purely himself, and to see him so earnest in this moment, it really hits Dean really hard.

Bea: Yeah, and it's hitting me thinking about when Rowena was initially just, "No, no, I'm not going to help. Son of Satan? Goodbye," and he shows up. He's like, "No, I get it. A lot of people have strong opinions," and it's okay. That this is just something that he lives with, but he doesn't let it change him. He's still a good boy.

Remmy: He's a good, he's a good bean.

Bea: A real good egg.

Remmy: Okay. Cas.

Bea: Cas in the blue car.

Remmy: Oh my [sings] f***.

Bea: [cackles] I remember you having strong opinions about this car.

Remmy: Take that soulless rental away from him!

Bea: [laughs] Give him back in his truck.

Remmy: Give him his truck. Give him Connie back! When I saw that car, I like [sharply inhales] everything in me clenched, and I was just like eugh. No, bad!

Bea: Go back to Hertz. We don't need this.

Remmy: But. But Cas maneuvers himself out of this f****** — is it a Prius? I think it's a f****** Ford Focus, okay?

Bea: I don't know the breeds of cars.

Remmy: A Ford Fiesta.

Bea: It might be a Fiesta. That was my first instinct, but I'm — again, they all... It's “the blue car”. That's the species.

Remmy: [cringing]

Bea: He's outside of this floral-painted trailer. I'm like, Sergei living the high life there. As soon as he's walking towards it, this ring of holy fire starts up, and Cas is just so tired of living. [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] Cas is so done, he's like, "Really? This is what we're going to do?"

Bea: And Sergei’s like, "Oh, you know, you can't be too protective..." Like, come on, be real. You knew he was coming.

Remmy: This bohemian Shaman Sergei character. I love him. He was just a character.

Bea: I don't know what to take of it. I'm like, what is your deal? [laughs]

Remmy: I loved him!

Bea: I — my jury's out. My jury's just sitting there, like, “Your trailer would be so difficult to move. Everything is just heebie-jeebie out in the open…” I don't know. I don't know. Camping flashbacks, once again. [laughs] But yeah, we got ottomans for chairs?

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, we go into the trailer when Cas is like, "Is the holy fire really necessary?" and Sergei says, "Oh, fine. Come in, come in. Have some tea."

Bea: Yeah. “You came alone, that's good enough.” Cas is just struggling to sit on that poofy little ottoman there, his knees up to his chin. [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] But he makes the effort. He is a good houseguest.

Bea: Yeah, he's going through the song and dance as best he can. Sergei’s going through his schtick, y'know, he's traveled the globe. He's studied all the things and he knows the unknowable, but ultimately he is a healer. So on the suggestion from Ketch, that, "Okay. Well, I'll do my best to help you out here."

Remmy: Yeah, that's one other thread through this episode, that every time that we've mentioned Ketch this episode, Cas is just like, "Really? Ketch? Really?" I didn't realize until this episode just how — we've all seen the gifs of Cas just being super done with Ketch. Ketch can't get a word out, but...

Bea: He doesn't have to be in the room to be earning that ire.

Remmy: Right, right. Sergei says, "You know, you come highly recommended. Ketch and I go way back," and Cas is just like, ugh, Ketch.

Bea: “If you guys put yourselves in the same boat, then I don't want to be anywhere near it.”

Remmy: But anything for — we're leaving no stone unturned, so.

Bea: Yes, Jack is in a pickle, according to Sergei — "dire position" — and Sergei is saying that there is a solution that will shock Jack out of this regression and basically reboot his system. I'm like, well that's convenient...

Remmy: [laughs] Right. He needs a recharge. A reboot. We heard this from Rowena, now being echoed by Sergei, except that Sergei — unlike Rowena or Cas or anyone previous — Sergei actually has the golden ticket.

Bea: Yes, he's got this ingredient list, which is basically "archangel grace" and the spell that needs to be recited with it.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. Archangel grace. Gabriel's Grace.

Bea: Yes, [mispronouncing] vintage.

Remmy: [laughs] In exchange for Sergei's best cloaking spell.

Bea: Yes, so that — Cas just being like, "Yes, the porn stars, Monte Carlo, I know the story,” and so Sergei barters this for a favor from the Winchesters. Cas just — I mean, he's got no choice. He agrees.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah because — I actually really liked Sergei's parting line, which was him revealing to Cas... Cas asks, "What is this going to cost me?" and Sergei says, "Oh, I don't trade in coin. I trade in favors," and just tell the Winchesters that they owe me one.

Bea: Yeah. Bartering is the name of the game here.

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: And then we go to Nick punching Frank.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bea: He is having flashbacks to his conversation with Artie, and it's in these flashbacks that Artie is confessing that there was a cop that left the house that night, and that the whole thing stinks of a cover-up, according to Nick.

Remmy: Yeah. So Nick now has Frank tied to a chair. He is beating the crap out of him and Frank is adamant: "I don't know. I don't know what happened."

Bea: Yeah, but we get the intel that Sarah had called about a prowler that night, and when Frank approached solo this thing came out of the shadows. Then Frank woke up in his patrol car covered in blood and, lo and behold, bad s*** was basically [dealt] at Frank's hand.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, so...

Bea: But not Frank.

Remmy: Abraxas.

Bea: Abraxas.

Remmy: Abraxas, as a man from the shadows, revealed himself to Frank, and then the next thing he knows he's covered in blood and he was the one — he was out of his head, he said — he was the one who killed Sarah and Teddy.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: And Nick's not even listening at anymore. Frank is begging forgiveness. He's like, "I don't — I don't understand. I don't know what happened." But Nick is turned away completely. He's racking his brains. He says, "Abraxas. I know..."

Bea: Yeah, he's checking his Lucifer wiki and is like oh, Lucifer knows him, this demon.

Remmy: And no, Frank, it wasn't your fault.

Bea: [singsong] "But it kind of was," according to Nick.

Remmy: [laughs] We have this brief "will he or won't he" moment where Nick's like, "No, you know what, Frank? You're right. It wasn't your fault. You were possessed. You couldn't have done anything about it." But — and then [laughs] we get the, "But..."

Bea: Yes, and... Okay, we had this shaky noise effect that was going on when Nick saw the woman in the alleyway, and he is having it again when he's like, "Well, Frank, it was still your hands even if you weren't the one controlling them." He just wants to go and get his kill on, so [he] swings that ball-peen hammer really f****** hard and whoopty — Frank goes tipping over.

Remmy: [groans] Oh my God. We have this extended — in true Buckleming fashion — sorry for the salt round. We get this extended, brutal murder scene that was just so unnecessary.

Bea: Just blood spray.

Remmy: I mean, it — like you said, we have Nick swing and just clobber Frank with — what was it?

Bea: Ball-peen hammer.

Remmy: A hammer straight to the skull. We get to see because [sarcastic] goody, this is exactly what I want for my Thursday f****** night. We get to see Frank fall to the ground, and then we get to sit there and watch while Nick just beats his head in.

Bea: Well, we — they do just the Nick angle of it, the swing and that. We don't have to watch the mashed potatoes getting made.

Remmy: It's gross.

Bea: Yeah. I — [grimaces]. It's not that I'm squeamish but I'm just like, it felt long.

Remmy: It was long. I'm not — yeah, I'm with you. I'm not squeamish. It was just...

Bea: It was made long —

Remmy: Gratuitous.

Bea: Yes. And then, again, that music — that noise build-up — and the look on Nick's face like he just got his killer nut happening.

Remmy: [cringes]

Bea: Yes, I — you're not supposed to be like, "Oh, that was good." You're supposed to be repulsed, but I don't feel repulsed maybe in the story fashion. I feel more as 'just the viewer' being like, "That... I didn't need that there."

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: There are perhaps other mechanisms that could have been done in order to show that just... I don't know —

Remmy: Nick finishes his dirty deed and we get this O-face from him where he just like —

Bea: That's what I'm saying!

Remmy: — panting to the ceiling like, "Yes." Oh my God. Oh my God, gross. Okay. I can't anymore. I can't. Bye.

Bea: Yeah, I — I try... I'm like, okay, if I'm offering critique, what would I do instead? Well, I think even the music choice could have been something a little different, because they're choosing something that's very jarring and dissonant and it's keeping you, as the viewer, kind of unsettled. But if that is also supposed to be representative of Nick's state, it's not conveying that he's enjoying it, I guess. And if you wanted to pull these musical beats, it would fit more in when Nick is saying, you know, "Frank, you didn't do it. But you kind of did," and then when he gives over to weighing out this judgment, then the music becomes something smooth and darkly uplifting. I could see that as being like, “Oh s***, now I can see where Nick is in this moment.”

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, you are in the moment. You're not outside of it, looking on like, "What the f*** is that?"

Bea: Yeah. Yeah, there's all the beats here, but they just didn't dovetail in quite the way that would get me on-board with what I was viewing.

Remmy: I'm with you.

Bea: Yeah, but yeah. Okay. Nick has his kill-nut on, and we go over to —

Remmy: 'Kill nut' is not going to be the title of this episode — f*** you.

Bea: Please don't do it.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Censor it out everywhere I put it because there's just a f****** gross almond cyanide taste on my tongue.

Remmy: [laughs] No, no. Okay. Back to the bunker. Please, God.

Bea: No, I gotta cry for a minute.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Okay. Yeah, we're back at the bunker and we're in the infirmary, and we have the three [guys] standing there and Rowena is beside Jack, who's sitting in a chair. Dean is still kind of nervous about what is going to take place here. He's asking Cas, y’know, "Is Sergei legit?" and Cas is basically, “Well, he was odd but he seems honest.”

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: And Sam confirms, "Okay, we're all not sure about this, right? Nobody thinks that this is 100% guaranteed," But then — of course not, Sam, let's be real. We never deal with guaranteed odds.

Remmy: But Cas in this moment, he's like, "No, Sam, I'm not sure, but —" he just kind of looks at him. Like, “Come on. Be cool.”

Bea: Sam is sitting there with a, "This could get worse," and Cas is like, “No.” In his head, just being like, "It's got to get better."

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah.

Bea: Augh. So much worry. And yeah, Rowena is asking if Jack's ready, and Jack looks to Dean before he says yes.

Remmy: [mournful] Oh.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: And doesn't Dean give him a little nod of encouragement, like it's okay? Aw.

Bea: Yeah, does this little dad-nod like, "It's okay, son. You can go ahead."

Remmy: Aww.

Bea: And so Sam gives over the vial of grace, and Rowena starts reading as he imbibes it. We're doing the steps that are meant to save Jack, and Jack reacts to it. He kind of dozes off after he's heard it, but when he opens his eyes —

Remmy: Well, I just — real quick — when he absorbed the grace, Rowena said the words — like you said, he's sitting in this chair and he just faints pretty much. He goes unconscious, and only a few seconds later he wakes up again, but it just took me to Sergei's 'a reboot' [comment]. Like IT voice, "Have you tried turning it off and turning it on again?"

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: So I thought — It was supposed to be a serious moment, but I was just giggling.

Bea: You see, like, he shuts his eyes, the blue screen happens for a moment. He opens up again. Oh, it's fine.

Remmy: [laughs] He's like reboot. Reboot. He's feeling himself out a little bit. He stands up. He's like, "I think this is good. I think I feel good," and it was like, have you tried turning it off and turning it back on again? And then we have the Dell screen up and then the second that your desktop loads it's like, "Mayday! Mayday!"

Bea: [laughs] They should have booted it in Safe Mode. You don't know if the virus is still there!

Remmy: [laughs] Pop-ups everywhere! We're crashing.

Bea: Yeah, Jack's — he stands, and he feels something and it's a definite improvement. Dean comes over and pats Cas' arm in this relieved fashion. But Jack starts to wobble and then collapses.

Remmy: Pop-ups everywhere.

Bea: Yeah. "Aw, s***. Virus is still there, guys."

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah, yeah. He goes — he tanks. Worse than he was before.

Bea: Yeah. Chop-chop, timber onto the ground, and nobody is having a good time.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. Cas is —

Bea: Particularly. [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] Cas is in the kitchen. He's on the phone with Sergei.

Bea: Yeah. "I'd like to talk to your manager!"

Remmy: Not happy. Less pleased.

Bea: Very irate, yes. Jack is much worse. And Sergei is just huffing on his hookah. "Yeah. No, I'm not showing up. I don't make house calls." And Cas just gets angrier.

Remmy: He is so smite-y here and, I mean — not to be that girl, but the hair in this moment? Okay.

Bea: Whoever has been Misha's stylist for last season and this one — give them a raise.

Remmy: [laughs] Give them a raise. Everyone looks so good this episode. I don't know what it is, but everyone looks so good this episode. It's...

Bea: Yeah. Yes.

Remmy: It was something I noticed, you know.

Bea: Yeah, it's hard not to, but. [sighs]

Remmy: And Sergei says sometimes experiments go wrong, and Cas just goes off.

Bea: Yeah, [baffled noises] "Say that word again?"

Remmy: An experiment?

Bea: And Sergei's like, "Yeah! Trial and error, you know. You've heard of this, right?"

Remmy: Yeah, and Cas says — he's, again, so smite-y. Cas says, “If Jack dies, I will find you and I will smoke you..”. I don't know, what does he say? I don't know what he says exactly but [laughs]

Bea: I just have, "I will find you," and then Sergei was the shrug emoji.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Cas is one level down from John Wick at this point. Like, "You threatened my dog. You're lucky that's all you did, because otherwise I'm coming to kill you." [laughs]

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: But yeah. Cas is just not at all happy, and I think if Sergei ever tried to show up for that favor, then he would get a face full of angel smite.

Remmy: I would not be surprised.

Bea: Yeah. So after we have angry Cas, we go to Nick and —

Remmy: Drunk Nick.

Bea: Yeah. First, when I saw all the empty liquor bottles around on the ground I was like, "Wow, Dean really got to it."

Remmy: Yeah! I thought we were panning to Dean.

Bea: But then there's the pool of — yeah.

Remmy: I had the exact same thought.

Bea: I was just thinking, because we had [the] infirmary, mostly focused on Jack's fainting, and then we got to see Cas, but it's like. Where are Sam and Dean and Rowena in this moment? We still don't know. So yeah, liquor bottles — Dean? Oh no, there's blood. It's Frank's body there.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: And this drunken Nick confessing that — he's doing this confession like the priest said at the beginning of the episode.

Remmy: Yeah. He says, "All right. Let's give it a shot," referring back to what he said before. "You know what? Maybe you're right. Maybe the answer does lie in prayer."

Bea: Yes, and that he thought that finding Sarah and Teddy's killer would free his rage. But the truth is that, at this point, he likes killing and just wants to continue.

Remmy: And he is — [sighs]. This f****** monologue. He is praying not to God, not for redemption. He is praying for Lucifer.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: He says, "You saw in me this darkness, and this is why you were drawn to me. And this is how we are connected. I thought that I could move away from these urges," and he — the language that he uses is just so wanky. I f****** hate it. But. [laughs]

Bea: It's very intimate. Yeah, and like, I don't know you well enough, buddy.

Remmy: It's very intimate. [sighs] Oh, man. But he says I don't want it. I don't need this. I don't want to feel this pain and this conflict that I didn't feel before. That I didn't feel with you. He really sounds like he's speaking to a lover. It's — you know what? It's whatever Mark P. wants to do. It's his character, you know.

Bea: Well... yeah. [laughs]

Remmy: But we [laughs] I don't actually want to get into it. Okay?

Bea: No, I just — Nick is sitting here and he's just saying he wants to go back to living without consequences, without pain, without sorrow. without emotions.

Remmy: So f****** Edgelord, but —

Bea: [overdramatically] "It's not a phase, Remmy! This is the real Nick."

Remmy: [laughs] And I am just dead-eyed looking at the TV screen through this whole thing. I'm like, wrap it up motions in my head, right?

Bea: I have a hard time empathizing with him. I have a hard time with his role in the narrative. We go back to what we talked about in the first episode of this season, like, why is Nick here? How did he get here? They had to break their own narrative to have him here. And so all the consequences that come after that, I struggle with this layer of disbelief because I'm always going back to you know, "You shouldn't even be here," as my default. Which is a real shame when you're trying to have a character who actually has a pivotal role in the narrative thread of this season.

Remmy: I know!

Bea: And yet whenever the character shows up you just have that arm's length away...

Remmy: I cannot connect to the Nick story line, I just can't.

Bea: No.

Remmy: I'm so sorry, listeners. I don't want to be so negative. I'm — I'll do my best.

Bea: I don't think that you're alone in this. Most of what I have heard has been just that, again, the struggle of why is Nick here? Why are we going down these really bloody lines with his character when there was no saying that this had to be the way he played out?

Remmy: Yeah. It's a pretty full episode, as Buckleming episodes tend to be. But we have Nick and he is praying to Lucifer, like I said

Bea: He is booty-calling Lucifer. Lucifer wakes up in the Empty.

Remmy: Nooo. No!

Bea: That really made me angry. Honestly.

Remmy: I was sitting there, watching it live, dead-eyed at the screen, and then the second that —

Bea: That T-1000 rises, augh.

Remmy: The moment we pan to the Empty, we cut to this dark place with a rippling darkness. [shudders] I probably screamed out loud. I would not be surprised if I just bolted forward and screamed at the top of my lungs, "No!"

Bea: It was — it was like a betrayal.

Remmy: It was!

Bea: Because when we saw in season 13 [that] it took a Nephilim in a moment of crisis to inadvertently wake up Cas — a Seraph.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: And now we have a man who just killed and is going through a really difficult emo phase for his midlife crisis, and Lucifer's like, "Ohh, what's that? I was just dozing." Cool.

Remmy: Talk about betrayal. The betrayal of the closure that we got with Lucifer's death, it was —

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: It was such a good wrap-up on Lucifer's [storyline]. It was — we should have shut that door on Lucifer's story line in the way and when we did.

Bea: Yes, because when we're going through the motions at the season 13 finale and we have Lucifer die — actually is killed — the catharsis that we feel for ourselves and for the characters — like Sam, in particular, that here is this demon that has been haunting him, and now that spectre is finally gone. And yet Nick comes back in 14 and then now Lucifer opens his bloodshot eyes?

Remmy: At the forefront of my mind is Sam's face when he was holding up Jack, at the church where Lucifer died. Sam's face in that moment was just — kudos to Jared — it was such a flood of relief and it was...

Bea: You felt it.

Remmy: Like you said, a shadow lifted from his entire self.

Bea: He stood up a whole 2 inches taller. That weight was just gone.

Remmy: It was such a betrayal to... We tied off that thread.

Bea: And as you know, the show doesn't live in just a time bubble. It then puts this flavor onto the season 13 finale, this bitter taste retroactively where you're like, well no, I don't get to feel as much joy as I did. That hard-earned battle that the characters went through? Well, it's not over, and that's just — it's a hard blow to take.

Remmy: Yeah. It was. It was a big move. We'll just say that. And now we're waiting for the other shoe to drop. But...

Bea: Yeah. But yeah, that happened.

Remmy: That happened. [laughs]

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: [singing] Luci's back.

Bea: Not a singing moment! Luci's back. [sad horn noise] Duck noises, I guess.

Remmy: And now we have three dads on a balcony.

Bea: Yes. Final scene. Rowena is scanning Jack and Sam, Dean, and Cas are looking on, and Dean regrets taking Jack out. He figures it was too risky. It's in this hindsight moment, seeing Jack so fragile, that he's like, "Ah, f***. I have contributed to this." And like, goddamn it, Dean, you don't wreck everything you touch.

Remmy: I know. Ugh, Dean doing what he always does, putting that blame straight on himself. But we do have Sam and Cas trying to both reassure him and process their own grief in this moment as well. Or their own blame.

Bea: Yeah. Sam just — he lives in liminal spaces. He is such a threshold, connective tissue between characters. We saw him earlier talking to Cas, struggling with whether or not Cas should go or if they should accept what's going on. And here he is now, sitting with Dean and being like, "Well, no we knew that Jack was going to get worse," and it was — "We all take risks. This was one that we deemed worth it. We didn't know."

Remmy: Yeah, and Sam was bringing it back to, this is what Jack wanted. This is life, you know? You take risks and you have to live. Otherwise you're not living.

Bea: And Cas, what he says to Dean, like, "You made him happy, which is more than what we did."

Remmy: Oh my God.

Bea: I'm like, baby, don't...

Remmy: I had to watch this scene twice because, I will admit, the first time watching it I was just like, I have no idea how they keep a straight face. Because, unfortunately, I was just blasted straight to the bloopers video...

Bea: Yes. The Shaving People, Punting Things [video], yeah.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And if you're looking at Alex on the bed there, he has this uptick to his smile.

Remmy: [laughs] And when Rowena ascends the balcony, she's so tightmouthed. I'm like, this is so bad. [laughs]

Bea: Ruth, I'm so sorry. [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] Jared, you're such a s*** and I love you so much for it.

Bea: Yeah, it's great.

Remmy: But this was a very sombre scene. Sad things are happening.

Bea: Rowena just saying — they're like, "What do we do?" and Rowena is just, "Well, watch over him and stay by his side as he dies."

Remmy: [sighs]

Bea: All just deep swallow motions, you know? That's a rough pill to swallow.

Remmy: Yeah, and that's how we end the episode. It's that no, this is a moment when we do just have to accept that this is a thing that is happening. And this is the thing that is real, and this is the moment when it really hit from me, like wow, we really went like zero to sixty on this, didn't we?

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: Because, previous to this, we just had "Jack had a cough" and we, as the viewer knew, that there was something wrong. But it was a hit to go in a single episode from — not in a bad way, not in a bad way — but it was something unexpected.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: It was unexpected that this thing that I personally thought would carry through, "Ooh, what's wrong with Jack?", something that would carry through the rest of the season. It didn't. We just put it all in this one episode like, “Oh, Jack's dying.”

Bea: Yeah, I mean. It sounds like we have quite a bit of critiques when it comes to episode, but ultimately there was a lot of ground covered when it comes to Jack's storyline, and we got to go through the highlight reel in, I would say, a strong fashion. We had the mundane, medical approach that didn't work. We tried the mystical approach, it didn't work. We went through our straws quite quickly and covered the traditional Winchester bases. We were looking at books, we’re making calls to people, we find our one deus ex machina that we try and it didn't work out. Structurally, it's doing everything it needs to do on a really rapid pace.

Remmy: Yeah, and on an emotional level, we had Jack actually giving us a farewell, which makes me nervous...

Bea: Mhmm. Yep.

Remmy: So I'm put back by this a little bit like, "Oh, s***. This feels real."

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: And like you said, we hit all of those beats in a tight amount of time, but I think it was done strongly, which is a credit to the writers.

Bea: Yeah. I enjoyed this episode and I just struggled on the Nick portions, because it feels like that storyline is very one-note, because it's not being played out really as a mystery. It's being played out as a justification for Nick's behaviors. If it was more of a, "Well, who did it, and what was the plan behind it?" then there would be a bit more intrigue to it. But I feel like that's hard to bake into the mold when Nick was the vessel for Lucifer and Lucifer needed a vessel, and so machinations had to take place to make Nick say yes.

Remmy: I'm so glad that you brought this up because I can't believe I forgot to talk about it when we were — when it was revealed that Abraxas, a demon — one of Lucifer's demons — is the one who possessed Frank and murdered Nick's family. We didn't even visit within the narrative the question of why that's what happened.

Bea: Yeah, or Nick's reaction to it.

Remmy: Exactly! Exactly. I would have loved to see Nick questioning that and coming to those conclusions that we, as the viewer, have to reach ourselves with no help from the actual, textual content of the episode, that this was something that was done by Lucifer for Lucifer. His family was killed — this thing that has torn Nick up so greatly — his family was killed, we can assume on Lucifer's orders, so Nick would have a reason to say yes to Lucifer. So, you know, he can murder Frank for "these are the hands that killed my wife and child" but he didn't even ask the question of why are my wife and child dead? Because Lucifer needed them to be dead.

Bea: Yeah, and I think that it goes to the way that Nick's story line is a bit muddy. Initially, his drive was all about finding justice for his wife and child. We are sort of told off-screen that he has changed his mind about that, and we're just shown the more gratuitous nature of him wanting to kill. But that actual struggle, that crux that he hits where he decides to put aside justice for Sarah and Teddy and just goes for his own selfish drive? I mean, the selfish drive was there from the get-go because he's very "no one understands what I feel, no one cares — me, me, me." Like, doesn't anyone feel my pain?

Remmy: Yeah

Bea: So the selfishness was right there from the get-go, but that moment where he decides that it is not justice but the bloody nature of revenge that he wants — if we had seen that more cleanly — then it would have helped advise why he was less concerned about, "Okay. My family was killed on Lucifer's command. Well, at this point I've stopped caring." We just don't feel it.

Remmy: Yeah. We didn't see it because we weren't shown it. I wish we would have been. I wish we would have actually gone through the process of having Nick really push away what he thought his goals were — justice for his family, or uncovering the mystery of what happened to his family — and cast those things aside for Lucifer.

Bea: Yeah. It's just — it makes me, as a viewer, sit here and be like, well, did I misread this character from the get-go? Because my initial impression was his impetus, his driving force, was his family and his love for his family, and at some point that just went away.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah.

Bea: We didn't see the struggle within him when he finds out that it was a demon who killed his family. We don't see him now struggle with, you know, “I want to pursue Lucifer and I want to pursue justice, and yet these two things are contrary. I have to pick one.” We're not shown that struggle, and so it just makes me sit here as a viewer [and] be like, well, was I misreading things? And that's not a great position to be in.

Remmy: No. I agree, and I think that it is what it is, but I would have, again, loved to have seen Nick making that choice instead of it seeming to have already been made.

Bea: Yeah. Rather than having Nick be this inherently dark, dirty thing because he was Lucifer's vessel, have him actually be a person with these pure intentions that have been corrupted. That is just the 'woulda, coulda, shouldas' that I feel for his character.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Bea: So yeah, what is your final takeaway there, Remmy?

Remmy: Um, okay. Don't don't be mad. My final takeaway for this episode would have to be ... it would have to be Lucifer?

Bea: I'm — why would I be mad?

Remmy: [laughs] Because I just spent 20 minutes crying about it —

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: — yelling about it, being mad about it, but by golly...

Bea: It evoked hard emotions.

Remmy: But by golly, it was what we were talking about, wasn't it? When the episode was over, Lucifer was that — and it was meant to be that, "Oh my God, what? What now?"

Bea: Steve Carell’s "no, no, no!" [gif]

Remmy: [laughs] So yeah, Lucifer is my final takeaway on this, because it's like no matter how mad I am about it — and I was mad — but it was the thing that you walk away from that episode with 10,000 questions. What is Lucifer going to do in the Empty? Are we going to see Lucifer dealing with the Empty? I mean, this whole connection between Nick and Lucifer that we tried to establish here, what does that mean? And is the mid-season finale going to be another, you know, Michael [vs] Lucifer hour? Who, what, when, where — my mind is spinning with questions. Yeah, Lucifer was the big the big twist here.

Bea: Yeah. That's fair. Woof.

Remmy: [laughs] But again, not to step on any takeaway toes, but I did also find it very interesting — the secondary twist, that this cough that we've been hinting at for only a few episodes, the thing that I personally thought would carry through the whole rest of the season, "What's wrong with Jack?" — for it to all just coalesce in this one episode. That was a twist in and of itself.

Bea: Yes, that's true.

Remmy: Also a huge takeaway.

Bea: Yes, very much so.

Remmy: How about you, what was your takeaway?

Bea: Um. My big takeaway — I guess, that I'm a basic b**** and I liked the way that this episode, for Team Free Will, played out like a fanfiction.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: I was so happy — we had the "busting through medical doors", we had the ICU, we had the "No, we're family, we're going home." We had the bucket list trip with Dean and Jack, and Bachman-Turner Overdrive playing. [sighs]

Remmy: The car scene was so good. The Impala scene. Oh.

Bea: My life, my blood, for domestic scenes between the characters. Having them not facing a big external threat; having them face threats to themselves and yet them still being united. I've spoken about this before but I struggle when the conflict is interpersonal. I much more prefer when the characters, they might disagree with each other, but they're still united front against something that is threatening them.

Remmy: Yes. Yes, all the family feels. My three worried dads.

Bea: Yes, and Auntie Rowena there that's like, "Well, f*** it. I need — Someone needs to do something useful around here." [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] It was so good. For as heavy as the subject matter of this episode was, [there were] so many uplifting moments. So many just "hand to your heart" [scenes]. From the hospital, to the Impala, to the creek. It was all so, so lovely.

Bea: Yeah, and as a fan it's just really gratifying to see your favorite characters spend time together and talk. That's ultimately all I'm asking for when I'm watching, is just let my favorite characters talk to each other. Let them have discussions. Let me see them in a new light. I keep going back to Sam and Cas talking to each other and just, again, love it any time that those two get to talk because so often their dynamic is outshined.

Remmy: Yeah. It's eclipsed by the inherent drama that is any sort of clash between Dean and Cas.

Bea: Yeah, and then Sam and Dean as the other dynamic. They're clearly, as the lead dynamic, get a lot of showtime too. So yeah, it feels like there's the gold-silver-bronze [medals] but we're getting a lot of bronze time.

Remmy: These dynamics who haven't previously had a lot of light shined on them, and so it's such a treat. I said the exact same thing last episode with Cas and Sam — I'm sorry, with Sam and Charlie. It's such a delight when we get our favorite characters talking together in every single combination possible.

Bea: Oh, and I totally forgot to mention earlier but my little Rowena/Sam shipper heart was just happy that when Dean was like, "Well, should we contact Rowena?" Sam's like, "Already on it. I got her on speed dial and we're already chit-chatting."

Remmy: Yes, that yes. Yes. Yes. I'm fist pumping. Yeah.

Bea: My Sam/Rowena feels we'll save for later, but...

Remmy: The SamWitch.

Bea: [wisftul] The SamWitch.

Remmy: Hell yeah. And uh...

Bea: We made it!

Remmy: We made it!.Guys, if this episode seems a bit of a hot mess, it's [laughs] you don't want to know what the recording time on this one was.

Bea: We were meandering and emotional, and I feel like we got our ducks in a line eventually, but it took the halfway mark to be like, "Oh s***. We're talking too long!"

Remmy: [laughs] But we had tons of fun recording and we hope that you had tons of fun listening. This was season 14, episode 7, "Unhuman Nature" and next week we are going to be covering season 14, episode 8, "Byzantium". And yes, I did have to look up how to say that word.

Bea: [laughs] By-zan-tee-m.

Remmy: Byz — I don’t — Don't push me, Bea — [laughs]

Bea: I'm doing my reader pronunciation. I will openly admit to my ignorance anytime.

Remmy: [stage whispering] I actually don't know but I'm sticking to my Byzantium guns, so.

Bea: 'Kay. I'm for it.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. This is our (No) Chick Flick Moments. We had fun. If you had fun then hit us up on Twitter or Tumblr. We always enjoy all of your comments and @s, and anything you want to talk about, hit us up. We are at nochickflickpod on Twitter, nochickflickpodcast on Tumblr, nochickflickpodcast@gmail.com for email. nochickflickpodcast.com for our website, if you want somewhere to go for easy access to all of our episodes. We're also starting to put up transcripts of our episodes, so if you have any friends who would prefer to consume our content through transcripts versus the podcast then we're here for you.

Bea: Yeah. We know not everybody has time to listen to two hour-long episodes or whatever, so we're definitely doing our best to make our content consumable in other fashions. So yeah, visit the website.

Remmy: Yeah, that's again, nochickflickmoments.com or nochickflickpodcast.com. It all redirects the same place.

Bea: Yes, and thank you very much for showing up you guys and hopefully we'll see you next week!

Remmy: Yeah. See you next week. Love you.

Bea: Love you.

Remmy: Bye.

Bea: Bye.

[post-outro stinger]

Remmy: Again, I cannot wait for the day that Bea goes off.

Bea: [laughs] It's hard for me to get angry, even when I'm angry.

Remmy: [laughs] I've yet to witness it.

Bea: Yeah.