(pt. 1)

Bea: And it seems to be working, because Kaia is now bartering with them, saying that, "If I give you this, then I want you to get me back home."

Remmy: And Dean says, "The bad place?" and she says, "To me, it's home," and Dean says, "There's no way you want to go back there. What are you talking about?"

Bea: This poor girl. She says that she came to this world to escape life as prey, but she spent the whole time here doing the exact same thing, just [with] different predators.

Remmy: Yeah. She says, "It's no different. I tried to leave this endless chase, and here Michael has sent all his monsters after me and I'm just constantly on the run. It's no different. At least in my world, I understood the rules of the world and my place in it, but here it's just all backwards and it's all wrong and this is no better than the bad place."

Bea: Yeah. It's like starting over, essentially, because at least there you lived your whole life learning the rules and understanding them, but then you come here and it's like, oh cool. I have to do the exact same thing except I'm starting from ground zero? Pass.

Remmy: Yeah, and we actually get a lot of — I mean, [teasing] this conversation.

Bea: We get some worldbuilding s*** going on for the bad place.

Remmy: I know. We get a lot of interesting Wayward things. A lot of intrigue into the Wayward 'verse, and it seems like a setup, y'know.

Bea: I would love it. I would love it.

Remmy: We talked about "The Scar" and there was worldbuilding there, but it also felt like, you know...

Bea: We kept calling it an epilogue.

Remmy: Yeah, we kept calling an epilogue. Now here, we are reopening that door.

Bea: Yeah, it doesn't feel like we're going to say goodbye to Kaia after this bit here.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. So that's super intriguing. Kaia says, "The magic from my world, the magic that I used to get over here, it doesn't work here." So I'm like, ooh, there's magic? Kaia, you're a magician? Tell me more.

Bea: Yeah. Yeah. Eyes emoji.

Remmy: She says, "The special boy. The special boy that used Kaia to open the rift. He can do the same for me." and Dean. Oh my God, Dean lying out of his a**. He says, "Yes, you can."

Bea: Yep. Jack can, and Jack will.

Remmy: Yep.

Bea: And you can see Cas having this moment of, "Kaza-whaa?" almost taken aback by Dean's brazenness here. But when Kaia starts questioning this, Cas backs up Dean immediately. He goes in with a half-truth, saying that, "Well, we need to trust each other if we're going to go forward, but we don't know everything. If you're willing to give up the spear then there's things you're not telling us so, you know, some ground has got to be found here."

Remmy: Well, Kaia says, "How can I believe you?" and Cas cuts in here to say, "You're just going to have to, and you know what? I don't believe you either. I think you're hiding something, because for you to want to go back there, I think that there's something, for you to be so willing to give up your spear."

Bea: Yeah, "Your spear, which is your one and only weapon you've been using and has been shown effective against Michael, who is hunting you."

Remmy: "And Michael's monsters who are hunting you. For you to be willing to give it up, there has to be a bigger reason and I don't think that you're telling us is bigger reason."

Bea: There's a level 5 backstory that she's not giving up.

Remmy: And, more intrigue, she says — she closes it out. She just says, "You have people you feel you are bound to protect. I have the same," or, "I have those people too," and she hands over the spear. But I am spiraling. I'm like, is Kaia alive in the bad place?

Bea: Well, I'm like, what's going on in the bad place? Who are the people?

Remmy: I mean, I think she might be connected to Kaia. If there are people — if she left — I don't know. There's one of two things. Either she does have people in the bad place, like The 100 style. This community of survivors that she cares about and she is their protector, and when she left the world, she was playing almost as a scout. "What is this new world? This better world?”

Bea: Ooh, yeah.

Remmy: And she didn't expect to not be able to get back? Or she is still connected our Kaia, and Kaia is not dead in the bad place.

Bea: That's interesting.

Remmy: That was something I didn't even think about the first watch, and when she said that I was like, what does it mean?

Bea: Oh, yeah, I was sitting there trying to recall the mechanics for dreamwalking here. If she only was able to share with Kaia, or if she can use it to check on other people, because we got the impression that our Kaia wasn't perhaps as adept at using her powers as this dark Kaia is. It just raised questions to me of, you know, is she homesick because she's able to visit there mentally but not physically? Things like that were just on the table for me.

Remmy: Yeah, if she is dreamwalking there then I think she would be able to wander at will, with a level of control. I'm saying, she would be able to dreamwalk with a level of control that Kaia obviously didn't have.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: But Kaia didn't just dreamwalk. She traveled physically to the places that she [dreamed].

Bea: Yeah, she came out with scars.

Remmy: Well, so, so — I want more! Give me more.

Bea: I know! You can't just drop this, and especially because when Kaia hands it over — she hands the spear to Dean and says that, "If you don't return this, I'll find you and I'll kill you."

Remmy: Yeah, and he says, "Well, we'll get it back."

Bea: Yeah, "How are we supposed to find you?" and she's like, "You've done it twice. Do it a third time. Come on, I do not do all of your planning for you."

Remmy: [laughs] Very dramatic, but that's Kaia.

Bea: Yes, and speaking of dramatic: Dean takes a phone call here, and when he looks back around Kaia has already gone.

Remmy: Yes.

Bea: And the call is Sam. He's alive, and he's catching them up.

Remmy: Yeah, exactly. He says that Michael knew they were going to be there. He destroyed the egg and he took Jack. They have this brief exchange of trying to work out like, so was this all a trap from the beginning? What? And they basically settle on: what does this mean? And they say there's only one thing to do. "We go to Kansas City and we regroup. We get Jack back and we stop Michael, because we're running out of time."

Bea: Yeah, Sam is saying that the situation is more complicated than they realize because a) Michael knew that they were going to be there. He's destroyed the egg and not only that but he had the opportunity to kill Sam. Like Sam says, he didn't escape. He just wasn't killed. Now that they are trying to call Garth back, Garth isn't answering, so it just leaves Kansas City as their best guess of where to go to find out what's happening.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: And it sounds like Sam is the one who's a bit closer, because Cas certainly orders him to not go into the plaza alone. Sam is just like, "Okay, I won't," and lying through his teeth, "Yeah. Sure."

Remmy: "Yeah, yeah. Drive fast. We'll meet you there."

Bea: Yeah, and so the next scene, we see Jack being dragged into that room in the high-rise, where he is brought in front of Michael. He's asking why Michael didn't kill him.

Remmy: Michael lays out more about his personal motivations and his mindset than we've had before.

Bea: Yes. We haven't seen really Michael going into depth about why he's taking this approach with our world and what he intends to do with it.

Remmy: Because I remember on first watch, I was firmly in the ‘What does Michael even want?’ camp and from the beginning, Michael in this world, I've just been waiting for, you know, what's the point? And what's his — what is he doing, and what does he want? And we don't answer all of my questions here, but we do expand on it a bit. He talks about why he has a particular fondness for Kansas City. He says in his world, he enlisted a garrison of angels to level it to the ground, Sodom and Gomorrah style. He didn't say that; this is my input, but... [laughs]

Bea: His monologue is definitely evoking a biblical level of f***ery.

Remmy: Right. He says, you know, destruction from above, but those large-scale nukes just gave rise to this human resistance and it got messy. He says this time he's trying something a little different. Instead of destruction from above, he wants corruption from within.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: With his army of monsters, he is going to transform every man, woman, and child into one of his own.

Bea: Yeah, they're not going to have an opportunity to form a resistance because he's just going to take them out in one fell swoop.

Remmy: Yeah, he — werewolves and vampires alike, it doesn't matter, because they'll all belong to him.

Bea: Yeah, and Jack basically just follows this monologue up with, "H8 u."

Remmy: Uh-huh. [laughs] Yeah. He says, "Why do you think I want to hear this? I hate you." [laughs] And then Michael's like, "You're just a baby."

Bea: Yeah, you have no idea what time will be like. You've had less than two years and you're like, oh my God, it's been forever. It's like, honey. You don't even know.

Remmy: He says, "All these things — humans, monsters, even angels — they are as insects to things like you and I."

Bea: Yeah, they're as equivalent to atoms, and that Michael and Jack, they're family. They're the only archangels left. Jack's Michael is in the Cage, and so they're really the —

Remmy: Yeah, that's one thing — let me interrupt you. That's one line that I actually missed entirely on my first watch. Jack says, "We're not a family. My uncle's in the Cage," and he says, "My uncle," and this is the literal first textual acknowledgement of Michael being in the Cage since like season 11. Are you f****** kidding me?

Bea: And we also got a tiny little snippet earlier when Cas, Sam, Jack, and Dean were laying out all of the things they have at their disposal; Sam saying that we can use the egg, Rowena's spell, and see if they could throw this Michael into the Cage. So this is twice in one episode that we've been talking about the Cage and archangels in it.

Remmy: Eyes emoji.

Bea: Yes. curious.

Remmy: Side-eyeing that one.

Bea: So curious.

Remmy: So curious. Do you think that Michael actually wants to bring Jack in, or is he just using Jack as bait? Because he knows that the Winchesters are coming and he's going to kill them.

Bea: I think that Michael considers Jack, in his current state, powerless and not anything to trouble himself over, and so this is an opportunity of, you know, if he can be swayed, I'll try and sway him, because a) either he'll agree and then it'll be easy peasy for me — because Michael is saying here that it'll be centuries before Jack gets his power back and he has no idea of his capabilities, but in the time that they'll spend together, they'll grow alike and Jack's loyalty will fade to the humans, and so will the differences that they have. So he sees that as a winning scenario, and then alternatively, if Jack says no, well, Jack is still a weak little baby, and Michael's just going to do what he's going to do. His plan is already in place.

Remmy: I just wonder if Michael feels an actual kinship with Jack. Not from a familial standpoint, but from a power standpoint. Because there is no being as powerful as Michael and Jack, discounting God, but God's gone.

Bea: I just really struggle with the notion that he would care about that, because in his world he killed Lucifer and then he had the next one appear and was immediately using him for juice to open up a portal. He doesn't seem to show particular regard for people in his own power grade. He sees these things as tools and so to me, him offering to Jack this deal was just basically he now gets to be the mentor and have a tutor. He has a protege that he can mold in his shape and it just gives him that God complex he so clearly has. He can now put it towards something — someone — who is arguably going to be more powerful than him when he is at the height of his powers.

Remmy: I like that. I like that better than my ‘is Michael just lonely’ theory.

Bea: I can't see it, because — I don't want to get ahead; we get more insight next episode into what his motivations are — but he spent last season fighting Jack and Jack being a thorn in his side. And here Jack is absolutely weak but capable of recovering, and it just feels to me like Michael sees an opportunity to just, you know, "I'm going to throw this out here and see how it shakes down, and if it doesn't go anywhere, I don't super care because this is a side quest. It's not my main quest."

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. I agree with you on that, but I just have — I mean. I, again, love this actress that's playing Michael, and we — it's hard to capture just the tone of Michael's dialogue and monologue here, but my notes just say "Epic Michael is epic," because this is the Michael that I always want from every Michael scene. It's just that absolute Archangel assurity.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: That scale of angels that we don't really visit as often as I wish we would.

Bea: Yeah, it's this calm, subtle confidence. Such a self assurance that there is no need for there to be bells and whistles proclaiming it; it is just there. It is taken for granted, and it is unshakable.

Remmy: And Jack has no concept of time, but Michael: "World to world, you will know the kind of time that makes mountains and that forms mountains, and Kansas City — this, that, or the other — doesn't matter."

Bea: Yeah, "These details that you're clinging to? They're going to fade. I can tell you that, even though you have no concept of what it is right now."

Remmy: Yeah. Epic Michael is epic.

Bea: Yeah, but Jack is just, "Sam, Dean, and Cas will come for me," and Michael just shrug emoji leaves.

Remmy: [laughs] Right. Right.

Bea: Yeah, and then we are in the parking garage for this building. The vampire / werewolf (?) dude that we've seen, he and the Chad bro are going over what the plan is. The vampire's really hammering it in: wait for Michael's signal; head outside. So the Bro goes running off and the vamp sees a blue vintage car sitting there and he's kind of squinting at it but [laughs] not for very long.

Remmy: Well, well, I'm sure he recognizes it as the car that he just saw at the post office a few hours ago.

Bea: Yeah. “How did that get here?” But no time for answers because Sam comes up behind him, catches him by surprise, and capi-detates that f***. He is dead.

Remmy: [laughs] Lol.

Bea: And inside, Melanie's walking by when she happens to see the cameras and, oh, dude, there's a headless body downstairs.

Remmy: Uh-huh!

Bea: "We threw those things in the garbage disposal. That's got to be new." [laughs]

Remmy: "Raise the alarm!" No, she doesn't even want to raise the alarm, she just starts mashing on the buttons.

Bea: Yeah, she rushes off to the elevator and when the door opens, she's looking behind her.

Remmy: I know!

Bea: And Sam's like, "Well, that's perfect — die."

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: So she gets the most unglamorous death. She's just — head chopped off like nothing.

Remmy: I know. I kind of liked her, too. But.

Bea: Yeah, she was fun. But [honking noise] she's dead.

Remmy: [laughs] Ah, well.

Bea: Yeah, sucks but carrying on. Sam finds Jack.

Remmy: Makes it to the penthouse. Cuts him loose and no Michael to be seen.

Bea: Nope, but they hear footprints — sorry, they hear footsteps.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, this ominous — Well, it's not ominous. it's just we have this supposedly tense moment.

Bea: A quickly approaching dread.

Remmy: Yeah, we have this tense moment where we hear the approaching footsteps, and I was like, okay, this is — I know how TV works. This is not Michael. It's probably Dean, but the door opens.

Bea: Yeah, Michael, first of all, wouldn't trod that hard, he'd just flutter in, but yeah.

Remmy: But the door opens and it's Garth! Hi, Garth.

Bea: Yay, Garth.

Remmy: And he's like, "Oh, hi, guys." [laughs] But I can't even be happy because I'm like, no, he's a plant. He's not himself anymore.

Bea: Yeah, he's a sleeper agent, folks. He's been f***ed.

Remmy: Oh no!

Bea: Yeah, they hit the elevator; they exit into the parking garage. They are getting ready to regroup with Cas and Dean.

Remmy: And we did not have to wait long for the other shoe to drop because Garth has a tummy ache, and he is bent double and he is struggling with himself. And Jack was like, hey, dude, are you okay? He walks over there, tries to say, "Hey, Garth?"

Bea: And Garth just introduces him to the back of his hand, and Jack goes flying!

Remmy: Totally wolfed out. Jack goes flying, and Sam is just, “Oh s***.”

Bea: Yeah. We also get this scary insight into what we're saying earlier about this Michael turning, what it means, and Garth is just sitting there saying he hears Michael in his head and he's being forced to turn against his will.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. He says, "I can't help it."

Bea: And Garth even goes, "I'm sorry."

Remmy: Aww, Garth. And Sam says, "No, no, no."

Bea: "Fight it, fight it, fight it, fight it."

Remmy: "You can fight it, you can fight it," and Garth says, "I'm sorry," and me, I am like, don't kill Garth. Don't you f****** dare kill Garth.

Bea: Yeah, don't you f****** dare have Sam kill Garth, let alone Garth killed.

Remmy: Don't do it. Don't do it. And so Garth, totally out of his mind, charges Sam. There is this extended fight scene where we're trying to — thankfully, Sam does not draw that machete.

Bea: No, Sam is on the defensive. He's trying to do a chokehold on Garth, telling him to keep fighting this possession. Jack comes and tackles Garth, grapples with him, and it looks like he's on the losing end of this pinning, but then Sam returns with the chokehold and he holds until Garth is knocked out.

Remmy: Yep. Yep. He says [laughs] and Sam just kind of dumps Garth to the ground. He's like, "Sorry, man."

Bea: Yeah, and we cut immediately to Dean loading Garth into the trunk of the Impala.

Remmy: Hogtied Garth, unconscious in the back of the Impala. They [laughs] they say, "Sorry, buddy."

Bea: Yeah. "Sorry, dude," boom, and turns right to Sam and starts admonishing him for not waiting. But Sam says that he had no choice.

Remmy: Yeah, and we have Cas in the background healing Jack of his wounds.

Bea: Ah, yeah, I wrote that down too!

Remmy: And Dean being a goober with the spear. He's so proud of himself. He's like, "But we got the spear. We have a plan." He tries to give it a little twirl.

Bea: Yes, and we get this quick little idea that's going on here, where Sam mentioned that Garth has drank Michael's grace and that Michael must have been spying on them, and then that's how he knew what was going on. So the theory right now is well, if we kill Michael then maybe that'll be a cure for Garth.

Remmy: Yep.

Bea: And also that Sam has called the other hunters in their hub and they're coming to help in the city, to try and keep hold of whatever is going to happen here.

Remmy: Yeah, he says the hunters are on their way in case we fail.

Bea: Yeah, and like you said, Dean has this little gymnastics with the spear. It's so hard to do physical comedy and Jensen's so good at it. I just am very happy when he gets to throw those chops around.

Remmy: It was so — it was so good. And so like I said, Cas heals Jack. We have laid down the groundwork on going forward, and we get my favorite scene probably from years of the show.

Bea: I loved this. Yeah, there's this building music as they're talking about, you know, "Michael doesn't fear us. He can sense Cas' approach.” They're walking into a trap. Michael is waiting for them. And Dean just: "Impossible odds. Feels like home." And the music finally crests and "Ode to Joy" is playing as they march with their weapons out towards certain doom. [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] Exactly. They're standing united. They lay out these impossible odds, but they're smiling almost.

Bea: Yep. They're just like, "Well, we're boned. Let's go." [laughs]

Remmy: And then we have that swelling orchestra of "Ode to Joy", and we are walking through the parking garage as one, that Guardians of the Galaxy...

Bea: [laughs] The "Cherry Bomb".

Remmy: Yeah, "Cherry Bomb" moment, and it is so good. I have — my heart grew three sizes this day.

Bea: Aww, and I just love it, because — okay, Dean with the spear. Sam with his machete. Cas with his angel blade, and Jack with his... sneakers? [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] Exactly! He's just — but he's just like the whistling Mickey Mouse, just jaunting along. He's going. [laughs]

Bea: He's here even though he has nothing but gumption and pluck. [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] Oh my god. I didn't even think about that, but I love it so much. This is Team Free Will 2.0. Two salty hunters, a newly resurrected angel, and nougat boy.

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: Oh my God. Oh my gosh.

Bea: Such a good moment.

Remmy: A great moment. Like I said, one of my favorite moments from the past few years. Such a great moment.

Bea: I've seen it — on first watch, I definitely rewound and watched it a couple times and it doesn't get old.

Remmy: And one other thing, since we're talking with the score of this episode. Two things that I got me: when we were talking to Kaia, we had this music that we have not heard before. I don't know, it struck me as something that was maybe uniquely Wayward?

Bea: Ahh, don't do this to my heart.

Remmy: [laughs] And you know, between the opening bit of "Rocking Around the Christmas Tree" and this "Ode to Joy", but even the background music — I can't pull another specific example, but I do know that multiple times throughout this episode, the background score has caught my attention, which is — I don't know why — but it is unusual and I think it was for a reason. Maybe we had a different, you know, a little change in the usual pace here.

Bea: And it just helped elevate the situation that was going on, both as these subplots of ‘go grab the macguffin, get back on track’ and also this overarching plot of what we're going to do about Michael.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. I like the score of this episode. I don't — it was.. If someone — hey, dear listeners, if someone wants to hit me up about the score of Supernatural, you know, I'm always interested to learn. I just...

Bea: We're plebs and we don't know what to Google. [laughs]

Remmy: I know. Exactly, that's...

Bea: "Music good this episode?"

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Oh s***. There's no good results. I wonder why.

Remmy: Bea, you always say it best.

Bea: [tsks] Aww.

Remmy: [laughs] We have — back in the penthouse, after this glorious moment — back at the penthouse, impatient Michael.

Bea: Yes. Michael is pacing, pouring a drink, trying to get settled in a chair. Basically, trying to decide what to look like.

Remmy: Exactly.

Bea: "Should I wear shock? Should I wear intrigue? How best do I exude 'I do not give a f*** about you guys being here'?"

Remmy: He is trying to position himself, like, "Is a dramatic stance at the window correct? Is casually lounging in my armchair the best?" It was just very Austin Powers, Dr. Evil. I'm surprised he didn't sit himself in the office chair so that he could spin around dramatically to face the door as they came in.

Bea: [laughs] He's like, "I'm not at all here for the drama. This is just what anybody does — pacing, pacing, drinking. I don't even care. I don't even like these people. I don't even care."

Remmy: [laughs] Well, he is tapping his fingers impatiently against that glass and he says, "Come on, boys. You're going to miss the show."

Bea: Yeah, and then he finally caves like, okay, I can't sit here and wait. I have to go find out what's going on. And so he goes to wander the hall and is calling out, basically, that, "You know I can sense you, Cas. You're not fooling anybody."

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. "No need to play."

Bea: But you're sitting there, you want them to be following a script! And now — yeah, anyways. Cas jumps out and starts fighting Michael solo.

Remmy: "No need to be coy." We have this fight between Michael and Cas and let me just say, my thirst is real because — I'm so sorry — this woman moves with such fluidity. The way this Michael actress moves in these fight scenes is so good. It's so good.

Bea: She's leonine, prowling.

Remmy: She's so graceful and freaking phenomenal.

Bea: I forgot to mention, but when we saw earlier she was fidgeting with her ring, it looks like one of those ridgeback tortoiseshell rings. I was like, that's going to hurt whoever's gonna get that fist.

Remmy: And guess f****** what? [laughs]

Bea: It's Cas! His face is the landing pad for this horrible ring.

Remmy: Oh my God. Michael forces Cas to his knees. He says, "Why did you come alone, Cas?"

Bea: Yeah. "What's the plan here? Was it strongest player first? Not that strong."

Remmy: And she just pummels him with this ring, and she drags him — and we actually see a shot of the bloodied ring — and poor Cas, his face is freaking ground meat.

Bea: Bleh.

Remmy: Yeah, sorry, listeners, [laughs] Bea, you can cut that. Uh — no, don't cut that.

Bea: I'm waiting for my face to relax. It's just a grimace right now.

Remmy: [laughs] Well, she says, "Let's go find your friends," and she drags Cas back to that room that's been home base and throws him to the floor, but she's not fooled. She turns and catches out both Sam and Jack trying to come at her from behind.

Bea: Sam and Jack are the worst hide-and-seek players in this moment. They are just up against the wall, like, "If we stay still enough Michael won't notice us here."

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah, yeah. Not great, but they were just — all Dean needs is a second of distraction because when Michael turns to these bad hiders, Jack and Sam, and throws them against the opposite wall, Dean emerges from the closet and goes straight for a stab to the back. Except, except...

Bea: Michael's ready.

Remmy: Michael's too good for you.

Bea: And Michael dodges and goes, "Oh, you got it?" and Dean just, "I sure did." The spear [is] out in action.

Remmy: It's the same Michael dance that we've seen from Michael, in all of Michael's fights, so kudos to the actors who are playing Michael. Like I said, she's beauty, she's grace.

Bea: Yes, and it's very unusual too. I mean, I don't know s***, but it seems so unusual that Michael doesn't seem concerned about using his arms in fights. He just is dodging and isn't really even looking concerned about being on the offensive. He's just waiting for the moment, [and] doesn't need to take advantage of every moment. Just, "No, I'll see it when I see it, and I'll use it and you'll be dead."

Remmy: Exactly, exactly. I mean, Michael has a very unique flavor to his combat and it has carried through and I appreciate that, as a viewer. It's really cool. It's just cool, and so — love the fights. We've talked about the fight coordinator before in the last few years, has just been really great.

Bea: Chef's kiss. I love it. Michael here kicks Dean. The spear gets knocked aside, and then Dean gets lifted in a chokehold.

Remmy: Well, well, for as clumsy as Dean was with his little baton twirl earlier, he's bringing out the moves now, for sure, but he still loses a spear. Yeah.

Bea: I'm like, I don't know if that's how you're supposed to use spears when you're fighting.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: I don't know, again, enough about fighting but I was like, spears are jabby.

Remmy: What, you're not supposed to helicopter dick your spears?

Bea: [laughs] Well, Kaia, by all means go ahead, because she's killing it — but Dean's just like swinging left and right. I'm like, it's not...

Remmy: It's not a slashing weapon.

Bea: It's not a scythe. You're not making hay here. Stab him with the pokey end. But again, if I was in this fight, I would have been like, oh, no upper body strength, dead. So Dean's doing better than I was. But yeah, Dean, lifted in a chokehold. Michael, just taunting. "Oh, I'm so glad that you can make it tonight."

Remmy: Oh, yeah.

Bea: "I know you hate me, Dean, but don't forget: you let me in," and pointing out that, "You're going to see all of what your mistake made possible. All the death. All the bloodshed. It's all on you."

Remmy: Yeah, "And I'm so glad you're here to see it." We get a couple of cuts to Sam struggling to reach the spear, you know, struggling against this hold that Michael had on him at the beginning of the fight. He says, "Dean, heads up!"

Bea: Yeah, he manages to slide the spear towards Dean and Dean grabs it and does a wild swing, but it cuts Michael. Jack calls for Dean to kill him, but Dean is sort of frozen in the moment.

Remmy: Uhh, Jack calls for the same thing that I have been yelling at my screen ever since he picked up the spear, because this is like a prolonged — it's bit prolonged, right?

Bea: Well, we're like, come on. Where is this fight going? Because Michael, either you can take them or you can't. Or Dean, step up: kill him.

Remmy: Well, so yeah, Dean gets a good hit in and he is with the spear to Michael's chest. He is backing him [up] against the glass and I'm just like, "Dean, Dean, Dean!"

Bea: [fake whispering] This angel has wings, he could just go [poof noise] and be gone! Take advantage; seize the shot!

Remmy: Dean seems to be hesitating, is the point. And then Jack calls out, "Dean, kill him!" and that's when it all breaks bad.

Bea: Yes. We start seeing why Dean is frozen, and it's these flashbacks that we've seen of Michael's actions so far this season, but then they get interspersed with Dean in this unknown location, which seems to be a bar. The last of these flashbacks show Dean looking around like it's a bit peculiar, but he's standing behind the bar. Back in reality, Michael sways on his feet, falls over, Dean's vision is swimming and then we know we're f***ed.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, because we get the same ringing, the same swim of...

Bea: Yes, the underwater feel to Dean's vision.

Remmy: Oh, no, Bea! Why!

Bea: Didn't you know?

Remmy: Bea!

Bea: It's what I've been thinking the whole time, the fact that Dean's vision swims. It's like yeah, you're going back under water.

[silence]

Bea: Hi, Remmy —

Remmy: [shocked laugh]

Bea: — do you like to suffer because my brain was like, hey, it could have been pleasant; have some pain! and I'm like, but I don't know [mouth full noises] Oh no, no, okay, I guess I'm eating pain now.

Remmy: My entire brain is just an empty dial tone.

Bea: [laughs] "I'm sorry, Remmy can't come to the phone right now."

Remmy: [awed] What the f***. [wails]

Bea: I feel like that's why they picked it. Because, okay, vision swimming blah blah, but the fact that the metaphor used for Dean's possession, his torture, has been drowning. Mhmm, all these dots, they seem to connect into one sad picture.

Remmy: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Bea: You okay? Can we keep...

Remmy: [strained] Yeah. Yeah. We can go...

Bea: [high, strained] We can take a moment.

Remmy: I don't have anything to add to that other than thanks for the pain, I guess. Oh my God, I didn't — I obviously didn't think about that and I am, you know, nice nice nice. Good.

Bea: Yes, I do what I can to hurt myself and others. [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] And yeah. [laughs]

Bea: Yeah, Michael falls aside and Dean steps forward and Sam — sorry, Sam, Cas and Jack are kind of like, "Dean?"

Remmy: Noo.

Bea: Dean holds the spear out and then snaps it in two, and with a blank face turns around. The grace/Michael eyes flare in them.

Remmy: This is the moment we've been waiting for.

Bea: [strained sigh]

Remmy: This is the moment we've been waiting for, because for Michael to have left Dean after the first two episodes of the season — and we were told in the hiatus of season 13, season 14, you know, Michael is going to be around longer than you would expect, because people were equating this Michael!Dean to demon!Dean in season 9, season 10. It was kind of like, what are we going to do? We know what we did with demon!Dean. What are we going to do with Michael!Dean? Just like I said, when we did episode 2, this was unexpected for Michael to be gone so soon, but we have been building up since then. We have a building up to this moment exactly.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: And it's such a good pay off. I really — you know, I'm sitting here and I'm screaming, "No!" but at the same time it's like, "Yes!"

Bea: That's the reaction that you want the audience to have in this moment. And you see Sam do it too; he goes, "No!" and Michael goes, "Yeah." It's like you're saying, "You didn't think to question why I gave up Dean? How did you guys not think that there was something suspicious there? Why didn't you investigate that further?" Just salt-meet-wound. I'm going to pour it on there, Michael is saying.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: But "Why?" is the question and Michael's happy to answer it, saying that Dean wouldn't stop squirming the entire time that he was possessed. He was just this extra element that Michael needed to put effort into to keep down.

Remmy: Yeah, and Cas then says, "Why now?" and oh my God, oh my God... And Michael says, "Because I needed to crush him and disappoint him so thoroughly, so completely, that he basically doesn't even know what hit them."

Bea: Yes. And now with that thought in mind, look at Dean this whole episode. He has been bolstered. He has been confident. He has been leading with his strong foot, saying we're going to be able to do this. Even when the plan didn't go exactly as follows, it was still, "Impossible odds. Feels like home," goes for it. And so as far as Michael was concerned with Dean, he's done exactly what he wanted.

Remmy: And Michael is echoing The Empty here, even, with the Cas deal. It's the same sort of, "I will wait until you forget to be worried."

Bea: How dare you bring up this comparison!

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. So that's what we've done, right? We just bided our time and we waited until Dean let the sun shine on his face and then crushed him into oblivion.

Bea: [pained sigh]

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah, that. And also, let me make it worse.

Bea: [laughs] No! Okay.

Remmy: See, now I get to hurt you for once.

Bea: Okay, yeah.

Remmy: You said, look at Dean this episode, he's been so optimistic. But look at Dean this episode; he put his life on the line for the chance to defeat Michael in this moment. He said, "If I fail, I might as well be dead," and guess f****** what?

Bea: [sighs] It's even worse.

Remmy: Well, that's it. He failed and we have crushed all hope. Dean earlier this episode said, “If this is my one shot then this is my one shot, and I'm giving up after this. If I don't make the shot then there's nothing for me.”

Bea: It's all or nothing when it comes to Michael.

Remmy: That's exactly what Michael wanted. He said we needed to drive Dean to give up.

Bea: And you know if Michael has left this door ajar, as he says, then we had that vision swimming. He's been able to observe Dean and how he's been coming along and going, "Okay. Yeah. The time is right."

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. Just in time for Christmas.

Bea: Merry S***scram.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Augh. What are you doing for Christmas this year, Dean? Oh, I'm getting boned.

Remmy: Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My — okay so like [laughs] No, Bobo!

Bea: Augh, yeah. So Michael did all of this, kept the door ajar to break and crush Dean, just so he'll be quiet — buried. "Dean's gone." He finally takes another sip of that glass that he poured earlier in his other vessel, and Michael's army is ready for this. And what is "this", quote unquote? It's Michael standing there, as Dean, with his fingers ready and then snap. Fade to black.

Remmy: It's the Thanos snap!

Bea: Thanos bulls***!

Remmy: [laughs] But again, Bobo, what the f***? Bobo! Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the Thanos snap. Are you serious? It was such a troll but it was so [gasps] a gasp moment.

Bea: Yeah, and the fact that this is the mid-season finale. This is going to be the cliffhanger that we sit with for over a month. That fade to black — Okay, so what happened? Did the monsters actually unleash? Have the hunters arrived in time? What sort have chaos is going to rain down on Kansas if indeed that snap means all hell breaks loose?

Remmy: Kansas City.

Bea: Yes, Kansas City. I'm sorry.

Remmy: No, I hate that. It's Kansas City, Missouri as well. [laughs] Our bulls*** naming.

Bea: "Kansas? Arkansas? America, explain!" [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] Oh my God, I love that video so much.

Bea: I know. I think of it every time trying to figure out places in America. [laughs]

Remmy: [laughs] America, explain yourself. Yes. Oh my God, I f****** love that video. Okay. So yeah, so this thing right here, this episode. You know what? F*** it. This is my final takeaway. Okay?

Bea: Okay. Yeah.

Remmy: We're going in.

Bea: Remmy, what is your final takeaway? That's the end of the episode; what's your final takeaway? [laughs]

Remmy: So this kind of episode is what makes me so, so very excited for our live watch when — you know, after this hiatus 2014 re-watch — I am so ready for that season 15 live watch, when we are going to be recording this podcast fresh from episode to episode. I am just like — my mind is f****** galaxy brain, because in this episode we had both all of the speculation on the, you know, so many feelings and so much speculation tied into the Cas deal. We had the accumulation of all of our speculation on Michael and Dean, and we had the f****** Thanos snap, where — like you were saying — you are just sent spiraling down this rabbit hole of what could this possibly mean within the universe of Supernatural? What — did we really just f****** do that? Did we really just unleash an army of monsters on an entire city that is sent in an organized...

Bea: Yeah, an underground infiltration that is ready and raring to go.

Remmy: This is Apocalypse World level s*** here. Did we just out the supernatural world to the world to the world? That was — these are all the thoughts that I was having when we watched live.

Bea: Oh, yeah. I remember when we watched this and we reconvened after, on the initial airing, that we just sat there and were so excited to speculate about if they have the fortitude to go forward with something as universe-altering as an entire city revealing the supernatural.

Remmy: Yes. Yes. And again, the Thanos snap. There are certain, you know, there's a certain weight to that cultural call, that that image.

Bea: Yeah, we ended on a cliffhanger within the Avengers series of, you know, there was [these] world-shaking consequences to the snap happening. Here, Bobo is invoking an image that is so fresh in the cultural mindset at the cliffhanger for this element too.

Remmy: Exactly. Exactly. I'm so glad you were here to put all of my bumblebee thoughts into words.

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: It's so — we talked for probably an hour and a half, just talking about this mid-season finale. It's so exciting and it's why I love this show, and this episode just evoked so much of that in me. This is why I love the show.

Bea: Yes. It was a very exciting thing to go to other fans and other friends and be like, did you see? Okay, what did you think about that? All the questions that came up because of this choice in the — or the choices that came up in this episode.

Remmy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I [laughs] this was just such a wow, wow episode. So yes, that's my — Oh, oh, oh. Secondary final takeaway: not gonna lie, I spent — about 20 percent of my attention throughout this whole episode was just internally ragging on the hilarious poopery that is the spear prop. It's so bad. [laughs] It looks so bad!

Bea: Every time I see that spear I was like, what animal did that come from? Like, is that a fibula? Is that a tibia? I don't know enough about bones, but it's got to be the skinny bone that goes beside a fat bone inside of a very large animal.

Remmy: It's a literal c*** and balls.

Bea: It — yeah, it does have very Freudian perception. [laughs]

Remmy: And it's like every time that we fight with the spear, we get these clang-clang metal tip sounds in the Foley.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: But it's just like this hunk of wood. You know, I understand you can't be swinging around...

Bea: Is it fossilized bone and that's why?

Remmy: But we get metal. We get metal shinks when we're fighting with it. So I'm like, oh my God, it's so bad. Hey, I would buy it off of eBay. But... [laughs]

Bea: Yeah, I'm like, I love it. But I also like to tease it.

Remmy: I do. I definitely — it was distracting how bad it was, because we had so many oh so great close-ups of that prop and I'm like, oh, no.

Bea: And it's all at eye level height when they're holding it there.

Remmy: Yeah. So what was your final takeaway, Bea?

Bea: Whoof. I think I got a piggyback off yours and say the way that episodes like this spark your imagination. We both like to do transformative [works] to the shows that we watch. We like reading fanfiction. We enjoy that aspect that complements the show, and to have an episode like this, where you get the floodgates open and you get to sit there for a month wondering what's going to happen. It really just sparks the imagination, and I just enjoy media that gives the opportunity to puzzle over it and ponder its elements, and just see what fashion you would come up with before the show actually goes and concretely says, "Okay, canonically, this is what happens next."

Remmy: Yeah. This was a freaking season finale level mid-season finale.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: Of epicness.

Bea: And there was a lot of elements at play that Bobo had to balance. There had to be the checklist of elements that they can use against Michael, and they had to have the counterploys that Michael was performing and how they were reacting. It all happened so quickly and so neatly; it's really deft writing that I enjoy and appreciate. So once again, thank you, Bobo.

Remmy: Thank you, Bobo. I know I like to curse your name, but... [laughs]

Bea: It's all with endearment, of cursing.

Remmy: Mmm, at times, at times.

Bea: [laughs] Not all. We'll give you a high percentage.

Remmy: And like you said, this finale of this episode kept us engaged and intrigued for the whole of the seasonal hiatus.

Bea: Yeah, there was no flagging in the episode and then sitting outside of it, the momentum carried.

Remmy: So good. Really good episode. Thank you, Bobo. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, thank you, Bobo! That was episode — season 14, episode 9: "The Spear" and next week we are going to take a one-week hiatus. We'll come back the week following with episode 10...

Bea: "Nihilism".

Remmy: "Nihilism". I knew that, obviously.

Bea: [laughs] And as always, if you guys want to reach out to us a) we love you for it and b) there's plenty of places that you can go to. We have our website up, nochickflickmoments.com or nochickflickpodcast.com, both will take you to the same place.

Remmy: We have our email at nochickflickpodcast@gmail.com, our Twitter @nochickflickpod, or...

Bea: Tumblr.

Remmy: Tumblr! That's the one I was forgetting. Tumblr at nochickflickpodcast. If you enjoy our show, like or subscribe on whatever platform you get your podcasts. It's a good way to keep track of us.

Bea: So yeah, we look forward to seeing you guys there. And other than that...

Remmy: Thanks for listening. Bye.

Bea: Thank you. Bye!

Remmy: Bye!

[post-outro stinger]

Bea: [slowly] Cookie Crisp.

Remmy: Yeah.

Bea: That's not a thing, is it?

Remmy: Yes, it is! Cookie Crisp.

Bea: Cookie Crisp? No. No.

Remmy: Yes. It has a howling wolf. Oh my God.

Bea: No. What is this.

Remmy: You damn Canadian. I thought we already had this conversation.

Bea: We have had this conversation! But apparently we're going to have it anytime cereal gets brought up.

Remmy: [laughs] Oh my God. Yeah.

Bea: Cookie Crisp.

Remmy: It's another one of our dirty American sugar cereals. Yeah.

Bea: Oh, Jesus wept.

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah. Oh, man.